|Hi Folks, |
I am in the market for a new boat and have narrowed it down to the 2009 Tige RZ4 w/409hp PCM and the 2009 MC X45 with the LY6 400hp engine. On paper the two boats seem to stack up fairly close. However, I was hoping to get some quality feedback from some of you who have real world experiences with either one of the two. I know it is early in the 2009 production run so if you have experiences with the 2008s please feel free to comment as well.
BTW, we have 3 boys who all love water sports. The boat will be on a lift at our dock so no worries about towing. Our home lake is Beaver Lake in NW Arkansas which has a moderate amount of traffic and is a large lake.
|Both monster boats. First, any difference in the dealers? What is the difference in OTD price between the two boats and is that something that matters to you?|
|if money is no object and assuming the dealer is good, x-45 hands down. if you ever want to sell , you'll have a much easier time selling the MC ( b/c of the brand regonition)|
|Unless the potential buyer has a Tige tattoo on his back.|
|HaHaHaHa. That is funny Nick. |
In my personal opinion there is no comparison in the quality between the 2 boats other than the size and picklefork. When you get in the boats one will feel like your in a mercedes and the other will feel like you in a ford.
|I think both dealers would be comparable in terms of service. I have had experiences with both and both have been good. On a side note, did Skier's Wharf drop Nautique? I was by there the other day and didn't see any?? |
Anyway, it has been mentioned but the only main difference I see is the quality issue. Tige is a GREAT boat and I'd own one in a heartbeat. But, MC is top of the line IMHO.
|I would ask this guy |
|Any particular reason not to check out the Malibu 247 or the Supra 24SSV as well? Do you just prefer the pickle fork look? If it were me though, between those two boats I like the look of the Tige better, but I would have to go with the X45 for the resale value and overall quality. I am not saying the Tige is not a quality boat... just the MC is very high quality.|
|I will give u some feedback on the x-45 |
First off, I don't know if you have a boat, and what size it is, but I have a sanger v215. My buddy has the x-45 and I can tell you right away that with the larger boats, they don't handle the same.
It took me some getting used to wakeboarding behind the thing. The wake is much different than mine, but I have now ridden behind it enough times that I love the wake, it just took some time. Getting up to speed is not quick though, as the thing is huge and weighs a ton when we fill up sacs.
Surfing behind the thing is amazing though. He has his wake dialed in, and it is around waist high. However when you are loaded up for surfing the thing doesn't turn on a dime. Normally it doesn't matter if you don't power turn, that is unless you have to get back quick to protect your rider.
I love his boat. It seats a bunch of people, and it draws a bunch of looks on the water.
|I ride behind a XStar every weekend and nothing compares to it!!! I have rode behind many differnt boats an te XStar is by far the best.|
|Skiers Warf just stopped carrying Nautique at this location. They still sell them up at Lake of the Ozarks. |
The main reason I was looking at these two is b/c of the pickle fork bow and available room. The Supra and Malibus are awesome boats, however the bow room on both boats is small. We currently have a 24ft Chaparral deck boat which has a BUNCH of room and I need an equal amount of space. Is the pickle fork bow bigger on the X-45? I know the main seating area is larger on the Tige' according to Wakeboarding Mag's boat reviews. One real nice thing about the Tige is the size of the Bimini with the extension. That thing expands out to 8ft. Again, getting used to the creature comforts on the Chaparral I expect to have similar stuff on a boat that is 2x as expensive.
|One other point for consideration is the size and quality of the surf wake. While my boys (biological) will be completely happy wakeboarding, the "old man" and my friends are all getting hooked on wake surfing. |
How about the new PCM 409HP motor compared to the 400HP LY6?
|Have you driven them yet?|
|I did not like the wakeboarding wake on an X-45 I have ridden behind, but I think with some tweaking, it could have gotten better and with some time, I could get used to it. |
I think that we all have great ideas for you, but I think we are eager to hear what you have to say once you test drive them both.
If the MC guy gives you the 'if you ink a sales contract, then we can go for a test drive so that you can keep the boat if it meets your expectations during the test drive' crap, then you should definitely go with the Tige.
If the MC is good enough to buy, it will be good enough to buy the next day, or week after the test drive.
|i think a lot of people are going to be blown away by the quality of the 09 Tiges. they really stepped up and did what the consumer asked. i was surfing on an 08 x-45 the past could days. it had stock ballast with a 400 in the rear locker and a 370 sac in the front and i've seen bigger and cleaner waves from the RZ4's. not saying that the x-45 wasn't a good wave it was just a little washy at the top. i can't wait to get my 09 22ve. just sold my 07 RZ2 yesterday and the guys picking it up tomorrow.|
|I have driven the X-45, 30 and 15. I drove a new 2008 RZ4 a few weeks ago. The following are my observations: |
The Taps2 trim tab starting sticking a few minutes in to the test drive, the drivers seat squeaked like mad and there was very bad vibration whine as I slowed down from 35 to about 20. I grew up with a Stars and Stripes and a Ski Nautique 2001 and never had that bad of a transmission whine. The swivel board rack bolt fell out as the sales person tried to demonstrate how easy it was to swivel in. Those are the negatives. The boat was an absolute rocket out of the hole and handled awesome, even with the MP340. The stereo was much better than the MC. There is about 5 more square feet of main lounge area than the X-45. However, the bow is a little smaller. There is really no good place for an anchor in the front to the RZ4. The X-45 has a front ladder (we have on our Sunesta and it is VERY handy for the kids)and a slot for a an anchor and chain/line. The X-45 handled rough water a little better than the RZ4. However the Taps2 definitly helps you "trim" the boat for an optimal ride. The RZ2's fit and finish was not as nice as the X-45. The Tige is about $15k more expensive than the X-45.
I have yet to take the 09 Rz4 out for a test drive. However, as soon as I do I will post my observations.
|Larry, that line is exactly why I'm in a Tigť and not a Mastercraft. My prequal loan documents weren't good enough for me to get a test drive. |
If a RZ4 is more then a X-45 buy the Mastercraft immediately.
|CORRECTION--- The MC is $15K more than the RZ4. |
Sorry for the confusion.
|Before buying be sure to test drive the 2009 RZ4 with PCM, you will notice a significant difference between MP and PCM. A good choice on Tige's part to make the switch for 2009.|
|^^^ What kinda diff should he see? The CC's Ive driven, all with PCM's, see to have far less balls then the Marine Power.|
|All things considered, I would lean towards the RZ4. |
And I am a Malibu owner, so I am impartial.
|You mentioned the 45, 30, and 15. What about the X35? I have no personal experience behind the boat but heard nothing but good things about it. |
(Message edited by unclej on July 18, 2008)
|like sam said.... |
you will have a easier time selling the MC over the Tige....
although... Tige is lookin good these days.
|35 does have some more "Creature Comfort's" in it..You mentioned above. I know nothing about the hull.. I ride in an X-30 some it is great. |
If you go with the Tige, make sure you get a ballast system with it.. (hate to bring up Tige and Ballast in the same sentence :-) )
But if you want to surf, you'll have to have some ballast.
|I've heard that the wakeboard and surf wakes are excellent on the 35. Again, that's just what I've heard and read. Take it for what it's worth.|
|The X35 has a very strange main lounge area. There is a place where a mini fridge can go which takes up a lot of potential seating area. The pickle fork on the X35 is much smaller by about 2 feet than the X45 and Rz4. Other than that, the boat is sweet. I did hear a rumor about a an X-55 making it into the line up for next year. Thats all that I have heard.|
|Both are very nice boats. Where do you do most of your boating? If you are in an area that get choppy in the afternoons I would lean towards the Tige. They seem to be the best in rough water ride. MC has very nice fit and finish but Tige has made huge strides the last 3 years and the 09's look to be great. RZ4 will be cheaper. I would look at the guys you are dealing with in terms of the sales guy. Have they been doing it a long time? Do you trust them? My Tige dealer is great. every issue has been taken care of and they are willing to help. I didn't get that warm fuzzy feeling with the local MC dealer. Just some things to think about.|
|Check out my pick of us wake-surfing in lake powell behind a 05 Tige 22v WITHOUT BALLAST!!! (on the show us your wake thread) The wake was about the height of my waist, and Im 6ft. I found the best config was at 10mph and taps at 2... The whole ballast thing makes my head want to explode.... Ignorance at its finest. Master craft are great boats but in my humble opinion not worth the extra cash. You pay a premium for better marketing. Go with the Tige.|
Everything in your test drive experience just confuses me, and goes against 100% of every experience I've ever had with these two boats. From stating that the X-45 handled the chop better than the RZ4, to the whining tranny, etc.
Did the Taps plate actually stick or did the guage just stop functioning? Either way, it shouldn't have happened... but 9 times out of 10 it's usually a loose connection on the back of the guage in my experience. And the plate is actually working.
Where were you demo'ing an RZ2/4 at? I'm assuming your dealing w/ Brad at the Rogers Skier's Wharf? Last I heard, Skier's Wharf didn't have an RZ2 on hand at that store (could have definately changed). The reason I ask, is I was wondering if this was a poorly cared for used boat. The squeaking seat and whining tranny definately do not sound right at all.
Definately sucks for a dealer out on a demo when your having one of those "boat days" that we all have every once in a while...lol.
I really don't see how the RZ4 was higher than the M/C. That just boggles my mind. I'm very familiar w/ Skier's Wharf Pricing, so I'm shocked.
I would think you would be getting into the RZ4 in the upper 60's, low 70's. Last I heard the X-45's are upper 80's lower 90's.
Good luck on your choice. As I'm sure you'll be happy with either boat.
I will comment on Skiers Wharf though. I know for a fact that Joe and Brad will both go out of their way to make sure you are completely happy. At all hours of the night even, poor Brad made the mistake of giving me his personal cell # in case I ever need it.
|There is something that does not add up about this guy. He starts the thread on the morning of July 17, then talks about his test drive experience a few weeks ago in the evening of July 17.|
|talltigeguy--what does not add up? I was just trying to provide some additional clarification as to my experience with both boats, which I did not mention in my opening post. Sorry if I may have confused you. |
tanner---You are right about Brad. He has come across as a very straight up guy and Skiers Warf sells a bunch of Tiges, at both Lake of the Ozarks and here in Rogers. I am very pleased to hear of your experience with SWE, as one of my main concerns is after the sale service (with whatever dealer I buy from). If I am going to drop that type of cash on a boat I want to feel comfortable with the local dealer's competency.
The reference to the RZ2 was a typo-- should have been RZ4. The boat I test drove was an 08 RZ4. I completely understand the little Gremlins which show up during test drives. I was just sharing my experience.
Also, I listed a correction post about the MC being lower than the RZ4. I tried to go back in and edit the post but evidentially all posts are locked for editing after 30 minutes. The MC is about 15k higher than the RZ4.
I hope this helps clear things up.
|Maybe Tim from Wetsounds can chime in, he has an RZ4 and helped redesign the swim platform for '09 so that the surf wave is a lot better. I like both boats, I started out looking at the X-45 to begin with and it was just too much $$ for me so we went with an RZ2 (RZ4 wasn't out then).|
|Turns out the the RZ4 you test drove was later bought by Bobby Patrino ;) |
I've had quite a few dealings w/ Skiers Wharf Extreme. And yes, their service is outstanding. You'll be happy with them as a dealer if you choose to go that route.
|skier's wharf has been our dealer for our 3 tiges. always great|
|Brad told me Patrino came and scratched a goat for the 08! I am going to try to test the 09 this week, hopefully. |
Does anyone know what the headroom is on the new Alpha Z tower on the RZ4? I am 6-3 so hopefully it is a touch higher than that.
|Guys I wish I had the same great things to say about SWE. I have an 06 I bought from them new. I have had a few issues that shouldn't have been issues. They don't have a Tech at the Rogers location so if you boat has problems they have to wait for the MASTER TECH from Osage Beach to come down. then it is hit and miss if the fix the problem. My problems lately have been very simple Battery Negative wire not hooked up and they say they have to go do serious investigation to see if they can find the problem. I have a buddy that bought an 07 new from them as well he could list a couple more very simple issues we are running into.|
|Are you aware of any plans to get a Master Tech down here? I guess that would be a direct question for SWE. |
|I'm not holding my breath they seem to be milking this office IMO as they don't have a high priority to get someone down here. The havenít had anyone since the start of the season. Brad the Sales guy is the person who was changing my impeller back in March. == Concern as they didnít even recommend changing it after 200 hours. I said I thought it was important and something we should have done. |
If you ride in Prairie Creek you have seen us we are in the orange 22ve my buddy is in the Red and Black 22ve. I rode around for 3 weeks with my back hatch missing due to it being fixed so I didn't have to use towel wrapped on the handle to open it.
|I was not aware they had a location in Rogers. They had one in Kansas City but that ended badly.|
|I also don't have great things to say about SWE. We had nothing but problems with them. We ended up selling our boat and bought from somewhere else. BTW, their pricing is horrible at SWE, we bought an identical boat as what they priced out for us for $12,000 less just down the road a ways. |
BTW, we got sick of Jake at LOZ SWE and were trying to go thru Ryan in Kansas City when we got the pricing. Now Ryan in KC might be better since he's not affiliated with SWE. I have no problems with Ryan up here in KC...super nice guy!!
|Ryan is a way stand up guy. he was still taking care of SWE messes after the split.|
|Ok. Now for all you MC folks how has the service been @ Ski and Sports here in Rogers?|
|I have only bought a board from them but they seemed really nice. Wish they had paid attention to me when I was at the boat show. I was at the MC Booth and couldnít get anyone to even talk to me.(maybe because I look young and wasnít dressed up or they were busy either way they might have won me as a customer) I went to the next booth Tige's and bought the 22ve that was on the floor. The boat has been great. It just shows the dealer makes the difference a lot of the times. I know it is hard for people to say due to the brand allegiance example /\ above but it is a big deal. I want a locally owned shop that invests in the shop and will take care of problems ASAP for top customers who give the open line to make sure the boat is taken care of.|
|I heard others say there were issues w/ Jake at SWE as well. I never dealt w/ him, but I know he's no no longer with them. |
I'll tell you my experience w/ them, and you can be the judge.
My 24V developed some small spider cracks while under warranty. I reported it while under warranty and got it turned in. The original owner/manager of the Rogers store had turned it in to Tige. I had requested to hang on to the boat until summer was over if I could. Tige said ok. When I went back, that manager had been asked to step down and I was working w/ one of the younger sales guys there who knew about it. Well SWE is 4 hours away and I drug my feet. When I finally took it in the next spring, Andrew at Tige was gone, and the record was gone. The sales guy I was working with was also gone as he had left to get married and concentrate on a different job and career. So I was basically gonna be SOL, as at that point I was out of the gel coat warranty. I had to take the boat in to get the motor flashed under warranty anyways, so I just took it up. I described the situation to Joe (the owner), and he promised to get me taken care of promptly. They did! No charge on those older warranty items, even though they were taking me at my word on it that I had reported it during warranty. They did have to take my boat to LOTO to get the motor reflashed... BUT my down time was less than a week.
Now all that is fine and dandy... but here's the great part. The dealer offered to meet me half way or even come to pick it up in OK if I couldn't make it down there. Same on the return of the boat. I didn't ask them to do this, nor did I take them up on this offer. But this was a great jesture, as they knew I was quite a ways away from them.
|I bought my X-45 from Dri-Port in St. Louis and the guys are great. They've always been there to take care of any problems or concerns I have, and to my satisfaction. |
I keep seeing people bash MC saying the extra price is just marketing. Unless Tige has changed something with their process/materials since last October when I purchased mine the MC wins handsdown in fit and finish. I'm sure a small percentage of all boat sales goes to marketing but I'm sure most of the build cost is labor/materials for the build.
I looked at the BU, MC and Tige. IMHO, BU and MC were top notch and Tige was not in the same class.
If your comparing, put the apples with apples. I don't think Tige has the quality of the CC, BU, or MC........I'm not trying to bash either.
|Actually Terry, Tige has done just that "changed their materials" |
They've gone to a better grade of vinyl every year for the last two years. They now have the same grade of carpet and vinyl as BU, and M/C.
|I recently looked at an 08' X45 for fun at a dealership an hour away from me. the thing is huge. I'm 15 and about 5'4. I was able to fit my entire body in the front storage compartment alone! It has so much room It's incredible. |
I also looked at the X-15. Very comfortable and excellent quality all the way around. I really couldn't tell a huge size difference between the X-15 and X-45. My money would be on an X-15. but that's only my personal opinion.
Being that I have CC'c and Tiges in my showroom right in front of me, I'll say that the CC's are not made as well (or that much better then Tige) as everyone thinks.
Not going to list the few things Ive noticed, as it will become a brand bash-fest if I do.
|^^^So you are a Tige dealer and a CC dealer? CC must love when their dealers make statements like that...|
|Hey Tanner, that is great that they took care of you. I donít think it is a matter of them wanting to take care of me but more a situation of they just donít have the time to do the job right when trying to squeeze so many jobs into the day or two that the only Tech they have comes down on a need basis. |
My boat was shutting down every time I used the Taps. I let SWE know about it. 2 weeks later a tech comes down and leaves me a message that I should just set the taps where I want it and just deal with it while he researched it. Thank God for TigeOwners.com that is one of the best resources for info as they were able to lead me to the fix while the dealerís master tech researched possibilities. When they hooked up the batteries they left off a major ground wire thus causing the shut down. The dealer finally had the tech back again they thought they fixed it when they took the throttle handle apart. I get back and my Ballast switches are all backwards. Just in a hurry to get it done I guess. My friend had his raw water intake loose where water was flowing into the boat while his bilge pump was also broken prob. during the impeller change.
|Statement like what..........They are both quality boats, that there is not that huge of a difference in the materials and workmanship of both boats. |
Not bashing CC at all, just sorry that it may offend a few that my opinion is that CC's are not that much better in quality.
Fire suite on, flame away
|not trying to flame, just wondering. I didn't know dealers can sell two brands of boats that target the same customer base. I am just like everyone else that thinks their brand boat is the best in the world...but also know I have limited knowledge of each brand.|
|^^^ I gotcha. My opinion is based off of being through every nook and cranny of both brands during rigging, stereo installs, ballast repairs, engine repairs, Cruise installs, etc. Not going to state whats been done to each brand, but a good mix for each. |
Not trying to take away from either, but Tige has stepped up in a couple of areas that were previously lacking.
Not saying you are trying to "flame" but some might have a hard time admitting that both are well built boats.
|Hello, 45 owner here. The pic was shot by my nine year with his camera phone today. |
This end of the lake was a bit stirred up as we had set up a few double ups.
Although by your user name I am sure that is a completely unbiased opinion.
|Josh, I believe you called me about the 45. I updated the graphics to the 2008 Bullseye. Head over to boats for sale to find the link. M.|
|Mike H., |
What year is that X45? Those are the grapics I want for my new 08.
I went on a demo with both of these boats, an xstar, and a x35. I liked the wake of the xstar but the interior felt smaller than my old x2 and the wake needed a lot of weight. The RZ4 has some cool features but was significantly rougher than the x45 in chop. I think the RZ4 mold might be crooked. The wake was cool but no matter how much weight we shifted it was bigger on one side than the other. It was clean on both sides but one side was bigger. The 35 wake seemed very similar to the 45 but I liked the layout and seating in the 45 better. Go with what you like but make sure you demo them all.
|I work on them all. both are great boats.that being said there is no fricking way an x45 is worth 15k more than an RZ4. I will take Tiges better ride. Far better fuel economy plus the 15k in my pocket all day everyday. i would test drive them both and then you tell me there is 15k difference. cant be done. good luck with your new boat.|
|Mike buy a Tige' you will have more friends and with the money you save you can throw a rager. |
Plus MC are over rated.
|James, My 45 is a 2006. Used to have the big grey X45 (see my profile). I think the new graphics look a bit "cleaner". Cheers.|
|just out of curiosity, where did this 15 k come from? I bought my brand new 08 45 almost fully loaded with the 400hp for 72 and according to the boat trader RZ4's are 69.5k (see link)http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2008-Tige-RZ4-92768689. For three grand this is a no brainer. champion watersports called me after and offered me in stock boats for 66 but I custom ordered! I also priced a 08 RZ4 with no ballast and the 350 early this season and the best they would do was 79 plus fees |
(Message edited by slmracer9 on July 23, 2008)
|Josh Ė Iíd love to have you come down to Abilene and see for yourself. Bring the whole family! Weíll take you out in an í09 RZ4 with a PCM and Iím sure you and your family will be extremely impressed with the ride, handling, dryness and wakes. The PCM is powerful and whisper quiet. Mastercraft builds a fine boat but Iím confident that after we get you on the water in our RZ4 youíll pick the Tigť. Iím also anxious for you to meet our team and tour our factory. -- Charlie|
|The man himself. There u go Josh... gotta love that! |
You got a smokin deal on your X-45 and don't know what that Tige dealer was thinking. Josh is about right on w/ the 15K. Most every X-45 I've seen priced out is upper 80's low 90's and the RZ4's are mid to upper 60's or very low 70's, loaded.... just cause that's the boat trader price, doesn't mean it's gonna sell at that price either!
(Message edited by Tanner on July 23, 2008)
|Hey Charlie, you going to invite the Tige stamped joker down?|
|Josh, to get a message from him and an invitation of such it great. That goes to show you that he is still very concerned about his product and company and has not just passed it off to the corporate world like other larger companies. I am very excited that they went with the PCM engine. I have a PCM 6.0 in my boat it is is an amazing power plant compared to others. I am one of the few 2005 24V that was built with it. |
I am certain once you get into and 09 you will by one for yourself. I have owned my boat for going on 3 years and had nothing but the best support and help from TIGE' They are great. I for the first time hooked my boat not on purpose at 38 miles an hour when the guy on a single ski went down and that boat dug in and spun around on me before I even realized what had happened. My kids were cheering me for finally doing what everyone said the boat is capable of. The best part was the nose did not go down at all when we did it. I will never do it again but it is nice to know that boat can handle like that. I would bet the 09 are even better.
|Hello to all. I used to work at the Wharf. I did not leave to get married and start a new career. I will just leave it at that.|
Thanks for the note. I appreciate your attention to customer service and constant improvement with respect to your product. I look forward to taking a ride in the 09RZ4 SWE has in stock here in Rogers, AR. It is just a matter of coordinating schedules.
BTW--- Can anyone tell me what the headroom is on the new Alpha Z tower in the RZ4?
|6'2" in an RZ4. It is the deepest freeboard in the line.|