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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through February 10, 2003 » 03 Air 210 Ballast Tanks « Previous Next »
By David Smith (jds1) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 9:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
We are currently looking to upgrade from our Natique Super Sport to an 03 Air 210. We are trying to decide whether or not we should go with the larger tanks in the rear or the smaller tanks. The center tank is a necessity! Any thoughts on why we should or should not get the larger tanks?

 
By Luke Tingley (cryptic22) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 9:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you want more room, get small tanks. If space isn't an issue, get the larger ones. There isn't exactly a lot of storage space in the back compartments with those tanks.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Too bad they don't offer bigger flat tanks.

What is the rationale behind these wedge tanks anyway? just silly.

 
By Peter Chandler (peter_c) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 11:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah how are you supposed to put sacks on top of those wedge things??? haha At least it is easy to put a sack over the center tank, which it needs just to ride without porpoising.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just silly.

Puts more weight further back.
Prevents sacks on top.
Causes things to slide down.
Limits the storage usage.

But! Enhances the storage of cheese head hats!

CC interior design team needs to pull their head out! How 'bout that new 226!

 
By Jason Craveiro (s4inor) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
That's why you pull them out and replace them with different tanks of whatever capacity you want.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 1:29 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ya, my ideal is hard tanks that come up flat until about 6" from the top -- just enough space for 3 wet vests on each side.

Wet stuff in the back. Ropes and bumpers under the middle seats. And, dry stuff behind (or under - yuk) the observer seat.

 
By Rob Chestnut (nut) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 7:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have the wedge tanks, and can still fit two small side sacks in the back compartments and accessories. I usually store a couple vests and knee braces on each side. I didn't get the center tank, because you can get probably an extra hundred pounds in the ski locker if you use a sac.

Just my preference.

 
By Wes (pesos) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 9:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
the only benefit to the wedge style is that you can still get a long board in the back on each side + a skate and vests/gear/etc. i know, i know, "GET ANOTHER RACK ALREADY!"
 
By Tim Sheridan (htown) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Juat a questions, but why is the center tank a necessity? Could be wrong, but doesn't it only hold 200 lbs.

I have a sac in mine and can fill it up just about all the way. I think you can get much more weight that way.

With a little ingenuity and engineering ability, you can have the sac tie into your existing ballast system. I did that in mine and it makes life much easier. Fill ups with my tanks and empties with the extra accessory button.

 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:54 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I wonder if you can order the boat plumbed for tanks without the tanks.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 11:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Wes, that benefit is pretty minor. Think about it. If the exact same volume tank was flat, the locker could fit more of that stuff minus the boards. And, who want to be putting boards in their lockers!

CC interior design is wacked: the wedge tanks, the double covered tiny cooler and the clamshell observer seat.

 
By Porter (mikep) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 11:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I would personally order the small ones so that you have the plumbing, then remove the hard tanks and put in fat sacks. That way, when you don't have the ballasts filled you still have storage, and when you do have them filled you have enough weight there to make a difference. My friend has a Super Air and we have to add extra weight in addition to the wedged tanks.
 
By Todd (wake_fun) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 11:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
So how would everyone order a new SAN? With the wedge tanks which are 520lbs or the flat tanks which are 400lbs?
Is there anyone on here that has the wedge tanks and wish they had the flat ones?
Thanks,
Todd

 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 11:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you got the flat tanks, you could probably plumb-in smaller sacks that sit on top. Then, get the center tank and add lead to the bow (as far forward as possible). My guess is that this would work. Just an idea.
 
By Dan Sullivan (danno) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
When you leave the water, you can throw a lot of ice chests/wet towels/tubes (sorry)... on top of flattened sacks for the trip home. and they shape themselves to the locker quite nicely when you fill them.

That's the neat thing about money.. you can order it built any way you want it. And if the factory doesn't deliver it that way, chances are the dealer will fix it until you're happy.

 
By Rob Chestnut (nut) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have the wedge tank, and two small side sacs, plus my own sac in the locker. I put a couple sand bags in the bow, and I figure I run about 1600 lbs. All hidden. I'm happy. With the square tanks, my total would be around 1480. I don't think 120 really makes that big of a difference.
 
By John Sorensen (johns) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:58 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane, most of us know you hate a few of the CC design flaws but the rest of the boat makes up for them. I personally like the wedge tanks. Right now, I store no less in the rear locker than the following items:

2-Wakeboards with Bindings
6-CGA Life Jackets
4- NCGA Jackets
1 Helmet
2 Ropes and Handles
1 Oar
+ misc bumpers, mooring accessories ect...
and would still have room to add lead plates or bricks. I think the wedge tank design is the way to go in my opinion. Who wants to jack with plumbing more sacs, watching and making sure they fill and empty properly, smell them after they get moldy ect..., not me, I gave up fat sacs when I traded in the X-star!!!

I have found with the Super Air you really don't need much more than the stock ballast to have a perfect wake.


 
By Brad KLemek (gotyatv) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 1:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey, we just wrapped up a shoot at the No. Cal boat show. We hooked up with Mike Brendel from MB Sports. They're launching a new ULTIMATE wake boarding boat B52, this boat is set up! Two speed transmission and 2100 lbs of balast hidden in the bilge area of the boat. Two 11Ft saddle tanks and one 500lb tank in the bow. You don't lose any space in the boat, it fills in 9Min. controlled by an electronic balast control system. Baffling allows you to control the amount of weight to either side of the boat dependent upon the seating weight and can be controlled while underway. You can adjust your wake for every riders needs. The two speed transmission eliminates the problems found by excessive ballast weight, allows rapid plane (approx. 150 ft.) a seamless manual shift between gears will not effect the ride. Two speed transmission could be the next best thing to wakeboarding since the tower. MB Sports will be providing a boat for all to check out at BV in April.The boat stays light for towing which helps with fuel and wear on your vehicle. We'll put it through it's paces before hand and let you know what to expect.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 3:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
John, given the choice between flat tanks or wedged tanks of equal volume, which would you choose and why?
 
By Todd (wake_fun) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 4:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here is something interesting for everyone to think about:

Water weighs 62.355 lb/cubic ft at 62 degrees F and has a specific gravity of 1.
1 cubic inch of water weighs .0361 lbs. Since we need about 60lbs more weight per side the wedge tank is about 12"X12"X12" bigger than the flat tank.

Now let's say someone wants the flat tanks for storage but wants to get the same weight as the wedge tank (again on one side). We need to add about 60 lbs per side to make up the difference. Lead weighs 711 lb/cubic ft and has a specific gravity of 11.4. The weight of 1 cubic inch of lead=11.4X.0361=.41154 lbs/cubic inch. Since we know you need to have 60lbs more, 60lbs/.41154lbs/cubic inch=145.79 cubic inches. Take the cubed root of 145.79 cubic inches and you are left with a block of lead that is only 5.26 inches square!

So if you want the flat tanks for storage you would only need a 5.26"X5.26"x5.26" piece of lead sitting on top of your flat tank to be the same as getting the wedge tanks......talk about space saving!!!!!
Todd

 
By David Smith (jds1) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 9:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Well, I didn't expect so many different views when I posed the question. I think I am more confused than before! Actually, we put a deposit on a Air 210 Team Edition, but our local dealer is trying to talk us into buying the Limited the limited (with the upgrades it is similar to the team edition). The only major difference is the Wedge vs. Flat Tanks.

If you have just the flat tanks in the rear and the center tank, do you need wait in the front?

Just trying to make sure we choose the right boat. By the way, is the Team easier to sell in the future?

David Smith

 
By David Smith (jds1) on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Forgot to ask. Anyone looking for a 95 Nautique Super Sport with a TWA Tower, Custom Bimini, Board Rack, etc? It would be nice not to carry the boat into spring/summer. By the way, I'm in No. CA

David Smith

 
By John Sorensen (johns) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 6:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane, I would still prefer more storage in the rear lockers with either tank. The Wedge design works well though and would probably stick with it vs the flat tanks. With the Wedge Tanks, you can slide items in to the rear lockers and use some of the space under the rear seats. I would think the Flat tanks would not allow you to take advantage of the additional space under the back seats. When I put my board(prodigy 140-BIG board) in the rear locker I can lift up my rear seat cushion and see my board sticking out.

I do not care for the clamshell seat either. I also do not really understand the double-covered seat design, But I cannot remember the last time I used it. I think I have my Wetsuit, binding lube refill, sunscreen and a few other misc items stuffed in there. Peace

 
By Todd (wake_fun) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 7:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm going to the boat show tomorrow. I'm going to really take a look at the two different tanks.
 
By Fredrik Broen (fbroen) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 9:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sounds like they should be offering three different tanks -- small flat, wedged, or full flat (which would ddefinitively be my choice). Can't see it costing them that much to offer a third option being that you already have to pick...
 
By Todd (wake_fun) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 9:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
David Smith,
If you want to see what the flat tanks and center ballast wake looks like, go here to this thread.
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/45303.html?1039018727

 
By dane (greatdane) on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
John, I have been cursed with the awesome storage of my BU. We are full day trippers so the storage is really nice. Wet stuff in the rear lockers on top of filled sacks. Bumpers and ropes under the middle seats for fast access. And, dry gear (the crew's stuff), snacks and misc boat stuff behind the observer. It is very nice to be able to get to this stuff without having to stop the boat and ask everyone to jump into the lake first (j/k).
 
By Aaron Bell (stencil_king) on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 8:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
David,

Why is the center tank a must? I'm new to all this. Thanks!

 
By Todd (wake_fun) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 3:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I went to the boat show and checked out the two different tanks. The flat tanks also have a wedge built into the front of it so that it is just like the bigger wedge tanks. You can still slide things down under the rear seats.
 
By Matt Brevard (wanksta) on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 6:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Where are people putting the extra weight (e.g., lead) if they use the wedge tanks? Does the lead still sit on top of the tanks, or is there space around the rear seat? I am thinking of ordering the 210 with the wedge tanks and the center tank, and then adding lead in the back and in the bow. Is there enough space to add 500-1000 pounds of lead? Just a personal opinion, but I am not a big fan of ballast bags...

(Message edited by wanksta on February 04, 2003)

 
By Wes (pesos) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i have 585 lbs of lead bars (nine 65 lb bars). one each on either side in the rear (under the seats). one behind the driver seat. two in front of the driver against the kickboard. 4 up in the bow. wake is great. you could easily add a couple more bars to either side in the back without compromising much storage and in the bow area as well.
 
By Matt Brevard (wanksta) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 4:54 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Wes, do you trailer the boat around with that lead in there? If so, how far do you usually travel with it?
 
By Wes (pesos) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 9:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
hi Matt,

my boat's stored at the delta and it's tractored about 200 yards to and from the water with the lead in it. I tow about 35 miles for service and remove the lead before taking the trip just to be safe...

Wes

 
By Matt Brevard (wanksta) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 4:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Did you make those lead bars? I am a little worried about melting lead, but I don't think regular dumbbell weights would fit very nicely next to the back seat (in the 2003's both batteries are under the rear seats).
 
By Luke Tingley (cryptic22) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 6:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Matt,

Are you sure both batteries are under the rear seats? My boat has one battery in the nose and one under the back left corner of the boat. Perhaps they have changed the location during production.

 
By Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 6:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
David:

Regarding the idea of upgrading from Limited to Team addition:

I just put my deposit down on a new Air Nautique 210 (also at the boat show) and inquired about upgrading from the Limited to the Team. In my case, I wanted the teak swim platform instead of the composit. It turns out that the package discount on the Team addition was fairly significant, and I would have paid more by attempting the upgrade than I would if I got the team and "downgraded".

The brochures and web site indicate that you can get either the large or small tanks with the team addition, so just tell them what you want! For that matter, they didn't have any problem giving me a teak swim platform on the team addition.

Rod McInnis

 
By Shane Cruz (boozcruz33) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 7:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Actually, I just saw an 03 Team with both batteries under the rear seats as well. I wonder if it was something they switched mid-production... and if there was a reason for the switch. Who out there has 03's? Where are your batteries?
 
By Luke Tingley (cryptic22) on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 7:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hmm...Personally I think having both batteries in the back would be the way to go. How were they setup, were they both on one side, or is it one on each side?
 
By Shane Cruz (boozcruz33) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 4:11 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
They had one on each side. I think that is how I would want mine if I had the choice.
 
By GRAMPS (akman) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 7:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
One advantage for having it in the nose is if you do have dead batteries you can always pull a car down to the water and jump it and have it running in the water. I have seen a lot of people start and run their boats out of the water while they charge the battery up.

I have seen them under the front bow seat and on opposite sides of each other under the back seats.

 
By Fredrik Broen (fbroen) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 8:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The nose battery jump start is good thought. We had our battery go bad early last spring, but there was enough juice in there to run a pump, so we were going to fill a sack, pull the boat out, then pump water from the sack into the waterintake...

But luckily, a Coast Guard auxilliary boat came to use the ramp just as we were about to begin and gave us jump...

 
By Shane Cruz (boozcruz33) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 3:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Or you can just keep a portable marine battery charger in the car in case of an emergency. I found those are much easier than trying to pull a car or a boat close enough to jump it.
 
By David Smith (jds1) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 10:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thank you all for the valuable input. If everything goes as planned, we should have our 2003 Air 210 Team Edition in the next three weeks. Here are a few pictures (not very good, but the only ones I have).
David Smith



 
By dane (greatdane) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 10:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Looks like Central Valley Marine.
 
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