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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through February 10, 2003 » 03 Malibu Motors « Previous Next »
By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 1:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just a couple of things I noticed recently. I just got in my 03 VLX with the new 375 HP Hammerhead. We took it out for a test drive and although it was nice, I wasn't as impressed as I had hoped to be. Last year I had the 325 Monsoon and that was a rock solid motor, a little underpowered when I had the boat REALLY weighted, especially with the stock 14x18 prop. Put a 14x16 prop on and it was nice. Late last fall I had a chance to drive the new Malibu Response LXi with the 335 HP Monsoon. WOW, even though that boat is only 100 pounds lighter it really moved! I mean it would push you back in the drivers seat and if you wern't hanging on it would slide you right out of the observers seat! I was hoping for the same type performance from the 375 in the wakesetter, but did not see it. I am hoping where the 375 will shine is when I get the wakesetter loaded down, as I typically will add A LOT of weight to the boat. So I still have hope.

So last night I was thumbing through the 03 catalog and after adding up information pieces from multiple pages I came up with the following.

Monsoon 335: 335 HP & 390+lbs of tourque
Hammerhead: 375 HP & 387 lbs of tourque

So does that explain my "push you back in the seat" feeling? I'm not for shure why the motor companies are so reluctant to give torque curves, maybe it is a marketing thing and they are afraid they would sell less motors of one type. But either way just looking at the numbers was interesting enought that I thought I would post. So to sum it up, the Monsoon 335 is bad A$$! The Hammerhead is well, it sounds bad A$$ and I will let you know after a few more uses! And one last thing.... Malibu, make the VLX available with the 8.1 liter 425 HP @ 500 ft lbs of tourque!!!

(Message edited by aneal000 on January 06, 2003)

By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 1:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
...and a bigger gas tank!
By eljefepequeno (eljefepequeno) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 2:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Geesh Tony, 425? Man, we are going to have to start working on getting you sponsored by Exxon-Mobil. Personally, I think trying to get the same response of a DD Ski-boat on a VD Wakeboard boat, well, you might have to do this...
Personally, I think the Hull difference of the two boats is the culprit.

(Message edited by eljefepequeno on January 06, 2003)

By JMS (wakedad) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 5:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tony, Where did you find a 14x16? What shaft size was it? I have a Malibu 23LSV with the Corvette motor and wanted to get a spare prop. I've been considering getting something other than the 14x18 but have not seen any in a 1 1/8" shaft. Performance has been great but I have not weighted the boat down drastically yet.
By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 7:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
JMS-I ordered the boat this year with the 14x16, it is the Acme CNC machined prop, they are available for your boat. Last year I bought a 14x16 OJ 4Force Stainless prop. I really liked the OJ, no complaints. That size is not very popular so most places like Overtons and such don't put them in their catalogs, but if you call OJ or Acme direct they can make/sell you one. Last year with the Stainless OJ, I only lost 1/2-1MPH on the top end, but picked up much better low end pull.
By Shawn (csquared) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 8:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
hp=torque*RPM / 5252

Depending on the torque curve, it may have no more power out of the hole than the Monsoon 335 (actually, it could have less). Take a look at the specs of the two motors and see if the max crusing RPM of the Hammerhead is about 500 RPM higher than the Monsoon. That could explain where the extra HP comes from on the Hammerhead

By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 9:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Shawn- Yeah, I know, that was my point, you added the technical information that I was missing... Kinda a bummer but we will see what some more use unviels!

The problem is they do not publish any specs. Was just on Indmar's website and they don't have much info, exept the max rpm, 5250 on the Monsoon and 5500 on the Hammerhead, and both of these specs look like they are on last years version. So still in the dark as far as what the new stuff is actually doing.

e- I thought about that a little, but can't seem to figure out the why acceleration would be different. I know handeling on a dd is much different, but why would "throw you back in the seat" power be any different in a dd vs. V?

By WakeNup (hockeyruss) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 10:33 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tony, the transmission on the V loses power that the Direct Drive doesn't. I am not sure why, but this is true with all DD's v VDR's. I love to take our shops Responses or Sporters out for quick drag racing demo!!!!!! By the way, we did a side by side comparison last year (2002 models) of a sportster with the 310hp v a response with the 325hp and the sportster blew it away both off the line and top end.
By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 11:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The sportster is bas A$$! I used to have a 98 so I know exactly what you are talking about! I know that the V transmission has a reduction of 1:1.34 or something like that, where as the DD is 1:1. But they accomidate for that by running different props, that is why the DD use 13x13 and the V uses 14x18 as standard props. I can't see the V making a noticable differnce in power, but maybe it does???

How about a sportster with the 8.1!!! Now that would be fun!!!

By Jason Craveiro (s4inor) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 12:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It's been known for a while now that the 310 Vortec has a bit better holeshot than the Monsoon on evenly equiped boats. I'm not sure how the Monsoon 335 has changed that, but I doubt it makes much of a difference. In the same boat, the Monsoon should eat up the Vortec at top end.

Tony, I think there are a couple of things that are adding up to give the perception that your new boat isn't as quick. The first thing is the fact that your Hammerhead is pretty green, and isn't completely broken in. I would expect the performance to increase quite a bit as not only the engine is broken in, but also the driveline. There are a lot of components that transfer power and until they all get seated properly, you're going to be wasting power and torque.

The other major factor is the difference in hulls between the Response LXi and Wakesetter VLX. The LXi has an incredibly efficient hull that makes a lot of lift. That's why it's a great ski boat for it's size. All that lift means the boat planes out quite a bit quicker than an SV23 hulled VLX with the engine in the back.

Rest assured that you have the best possible engine for use in a Malibu v-drive. There is something about the torque curve of the Hammerhead and the reduction of the Hurth v-drive that makes it the best possible combination.

The 8.1 screams in the small direct drive boats (Response SS), but I doubt you would see a big enough improvement in the low end segement to justify the increased fuel usage when put in the v-drive boats.

By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 1:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jason, yeah I know that the motor and drive train are not broke in yet, that is why I am anxious to get some hours on it and some real world testing to see how it does. But the Response LXi with the 335 that I drove was also brand new. So I just kinda left that fact out as it seemed to be a wash on both boats. I'm sure the hull design really does have a lot to do with what I was experiencing, I guess my best comparison will be to get in a VLX with the 335. I know exactly how the 325 of last year performed, so it will be interesting to see if I can tell that big of difference in boats/motor combos. Thanks for everyone's input, I will keep you all posted as to what I experience.
By Shawn (csquared) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 4:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
During the summer we raced a VLX with the new 335 in it versus a VLX that was a year older with the 310. End result was really no difference. I guess the hull design could make a bigger difference than a 10% HP increase.
As a side note, I've never taken a V-drive apart but my understanding is that they are helical gears and shouldn't have any more power loss than any gear driven transmission (essentially zero). It would seem that there should be the same prop horsepower in a V-drive or a direct drive (assuming the same transmission). I'd be curious to know if I am misunderstanding the make up of a v-drive.

By Tony Neal (aneal000) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 5:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That's interesting Shaun, I actually raced a Response LX w/325 Monsoon with my VLX w/325 Monsoon and as he was able to take me off the line I was actually pulling away from him on the top end-but not by much, and I mean not much at all! But I will also add that we both had about 700lbs of lead in our boats. Just one more interesting fact until Indmar/Malibu decides to publish torque curves! Yeah right!
By Tim Krutz (timmy) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 5:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
my dealer recommended the monsoon over the higher end motors due to the better low end setup.
By Jason Craveiro (s4inor) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 6:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
In the direct drive boats the Vortec actually has the strongest low end. In the v-drives the Hammerhead is without a doubt the only engine to own, IMHO.
By Shawn (csquared) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 7:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
We had a fully loaded (factory ballst, wedge) VLX with the Monsson 325 in it towing three riders and 9 people in the boat. It came up fine and drove fine. It just used A LOT of gas. Anyway you cut it, 300 plus HP is a lot of power. Now if they could just get that kind of power and torque in a motor that burned 2-3 gallons/hour instead of 6.
By WakeNup (hockeyruss) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 9:20 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tony, small boat big engine, test drive a response barefooter if your shop gets one. We got one last year for a local pro and although i did not get in it, I heard it was the G-Force machine.
By Todd (wake_fun) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 12:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey Jason,
What about PCM's new Vortec 6.0 that has 370HP and 492FT/LBS of torque? I would like to see the Hammerhead your talking about go up against this engine since the Hammerhead only has 387FT/LBS of torque!!!

By Jason Craveiro (s4inor) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 11:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The LQ9 is a sweet engine! I think it would destroy the Hammerhead in the direct drive boats, and I know it would beat the Hammerhead in v-drives, but I don't think it would be that much faster. I really hope it replaces the current Gen+ engine as the Hammerhead next year.
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