|I'm looking for a new Boat and currently have a favor to the Tige and Moomba lines. This is strictly based off of what I like in the looks and style. I am having a hard time justifying the price difference in a Moomba to a tige. The 20V compared to the Mobius LSV are only different to my by a lower price tag on the Moomba. Am I missing something big here?|
|You should check out the Sanger V210. A lot of boat for the money and the wake is awesome. |
|I agree with Barry. The Sanger V210 is a lot of boat for the money and the wake is awesome. Look around...you might find one priced lower than that of the Tige' or Moomba. Don't get me wrong...Tige' and Moomba are great boats...I just think Sangers are much better.|
|I agree with Joe and Barry. |
|The Sanger V210 sun deck is a joke. Michael check into other boats and do some reseach on your own. There are plenty of other no name boats out there with killer features.|
|Why is the sundeck a joke? I t may look a little funny but why is it a joke? |
|I wonder how many people slide off the side of the boat because of the design? |
|Maybe if you were drunk? |
Have you laid on the sundeck w/ sunscreen on?
I agree w/ Blabelmooch...I think you'd have to be drunk to slide off of the deck. It's not that steep.
|I guess it depends on your situation. Some are out on the water the whole day so storage and space would be important. Others like myself are usually only on a boat for about 4 hours max so it is not as much of an issue.|
Phaeton, I have about 60 hours on my boat and have climbed all over that thing, Never have I even come close to sliding off.. I haven't asked the people who ride with me but I can't ever remember hearing "whoa! %#%^!! I put on too much sunscreen and almost fell off the back of this poorly designed sundeck!"
I suppose if you were underway and sitting on the sundeck you could easily fall off..But you're not supposed to be on the sundeck while underway. Someone said "take off the warning labels and let the problem fix itself".. I agree.
|OK how about the older looking design and the low sides. The boat performs great it just could use some upgrades. Actually most boats need some upgrades.|
|Be specific, Phaeton. What upgrades are you talking about? |
I'm pretty happy with my '03 and since it's my first comp. boat I have nothing to compare it to.
|Barry they have been building that same boat for over 5 years. One of the only complaints about the boat is the low sides and the sun pad. Why not update the boat and fix those two things. The gel coat work is great but you can tell the molds are from the 90's. They should freshin up the look of the boat that's all. |
|Yeah, the sides are low! Since this has never caused me any problems I'll have to assume it's a preference issue. I don't have any young children, mine are 12 and 17 so the freeboard being low isn't a safty issue to me. I suppose my question is: why would low sides be a problem? |
As for the sun pad, it is oddly shaped but we've never had a problem sliding off. Nobody on my boat lays on the thing, we don't have the time as we're always boarding. I suppose if we used it as a sun pad to lay-out on it would be a bit uncomfy.
How can you tell the molds are from the 90's? Is there some tell-tale sign? Since I wouldn't know an 80's mold from a 90's mold I'm asking. If you're referring to the boats overall shape.... That's one of the things I like about it. It looks sexy to me.
You're correct, the gel work is great!
The next obvious question would be: Have you ever boarded/been in one on the water? The wake is great, they drive like a dream and their rough water handling is unbelievable. I'm sure there are things that could use some change in every boat.. overall, I think it's a wonderful boat! But I own one so my opinion may be biased.
Btw, I think every company should adopt some version of Calabria's pure-vert system, it truly has got to be the most simple, pimpest system on the market! I looked at the Calabria's and really liked them. Besides the price, the only things I didn't like was the thin material they used for the seating and the huge beam! I'll bet it would take sme serious weight to sink that thing and fuel econ. is a huge issue to me.
|If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
Phaeton, the wake on a Sanger V210 is really nice...big and solid. If you haven't ridden behind one and you get a chance to, don't pass it up. Once you've been in a V210, you'll see why they haven't changed much.
|I guess it all depends on what type of boating and where you boat. We usually stay on the water all day. For us hanging out with friends on the water is what it's all about. So a lot of the time is spent on the sunpad and swimming around the platform. |
It seems to me that if the boat is loaded down a wave could easily come over the back. Hey it's happened to me before (thanks Sean).
I'm glad you like the design. I have not ridden in one (yet) but what you said can be said about more than just one boat out there.
I agree I wish that Calabria and other manufactures used non felt backed vinyl in there boats. That is one complaint I have with mine. Comfortable but not board friendly. Even if the interior in a boat was Ryno lined it would somehow get torn though.
Fuel economy in the Pro-V should be great because of the Delta shaped pad design under the boat. From what I hear the wake behind the Pro-V is huge.
|If you ever get up to the Fresno area, shoot me an e-mail. I'd like to take you out and see what you think of the boat once you've been in one on the water. Something I forgot to mention, the storage on the boat is insane. Mafia approved! |
|We see a ton of them at Shasta. I bet the Pro-V has more storage.|
|Actually, it doesn't.. I looked at the pro-v for 8 months before I purchased my V-210. The Pro-v does have a lot of storage but the V-210 has it beat. Probably not by much though. |
|There is no possible way the V210 beats the storage of the 23' Pro-V. Plus the Pro-V's ballast takes up no interior room. I think you may be confused.|
|Okay. ..... |
|to get back to the original question on this board- Tige 20V Or Mobius LSV? I would have to tell you I had the same Question. Needless to say I ended up buying the Mobius LSV and have nothing but satisfaction from this boat. (and yes I demoed both boats) The tige 20v is a nice boat but the LSV offered more storage, handled better,and was much roomier. Also I like the wake on the LSV alot better. My suggestion would be to match the boats up boat for boat, demo both and I think the choice will be obvious. MOBIUS LSV!!|
|If I had to choose between the 20V and the Mobius I would go with the Mobius. I like the interior much better than the Tige. |
|Its all you man i tried a tige never tried a mobius...test em first|
|If looking at the Tige I would look at either the 21i or the new 22v, the only reason I would consider the 20v would be garage size requirements or some lakes limit you to 20 foot, Why be cramped? I learned my leason with the 20i. |
|I've ridden in, ridden behind, been in, and driven both of those boats. Both have very nice wakes, the Mobius had more storage, the Tige handled much better in rough water. The Tige is 20'6", and the Mobius was 22'6" (?) I believe. Obviously the mobius would have more room, so I don't think you can make that an issue. I couldn't choose between the two. But I would reccomend looking at the 22v and the LSV at the same time. |
|I will make one clarification for you on the boats,the tige 20V is exactly 20 ft. the Mobius LSV is 20FT.8inches (without the swim platform.) If you decide you want to compare the MOB LSV with the Tige 22v (which is 21FT 9IN.) you might see fit to bump up in size on the moomba side and check out the Mobius V. That would be a better comparison in size to the Tige 22v (The MOB V is 22ft.)As I stated befor I ended up sticking with the LSV, I did however demo the Mobius V also and that boat was unbeleivable in terms of Storage,ballast capacity,comfort, handling, and not to mention the wake was HUGE.The only thing that held me back from purchasing the MOB V was I had nowhere in my garage to accommadate the extra foot on a boat. You can't buy something you can't store! The LSV is just right for what I need. Good Luck.|
|well I apologize, it was a mobius V that had ridden behind, driven, blabbidy blah blah. You get the picture. Thanks for the correction Jake.|
|Something that is often overlooked is resale value. Here in the Chicagoland area, only the big three carry their resale value well. I had a guy come in yesterday wanting to trade his 22i Type R in on an 21' XTI. We could only offer him something like 26K, which I know is low, but we would end up sitting on the boat. The customer told me that the local Tige dealer had an 03 22i Type R boat show special priced at 45K. I looked up the retail on the boat, and found it to be 38,995. So I guess that the boat show special was indeed special........for the dealer. |
We have also been sitting on a Moomba at the shop for over a year now.
I'm not trying to take anything away from these boats, but it is something to consider when buying a boat.
|the difference in price is the same reason a Supra costs more than a Moomba. The supra and moomba have the same hull construction, but after that there are differences. My understanding is that the supra has nicer vinyl, carpet, accessories, etc. The Tige would be more like the Supra with the thicker carpet, nicer interior, more accessories. But if those items do not matter to you, then go with the lower priced boat. both should be nice boats that you can enjoy. As far as resell , you do need to check your area. Here , Tiges resell great, Moombas do not, mainly because they have not had a steady dealer the last few years.|
|So you are saying that a Supra and a tige are a little more like comparing the apples to apples. I just favored the style of the moomba and knew that they were built by the same company as Supra, maybe that is why I was influenced to go toward the Tige-Moomba comparison. Thanks for the input.|
|Keith, and everyone else, let me clairify something for you. Supras Vinyl may appear to be nicer because they do use a triple stitch seam, and they add more distinct lines and padding in certain places where the moomba doesnt, but it is the exact same vinyl. Also, Supra comes with 40oz carpet standard, where the moomba comes with 28oz carpet standard, but it is optional to upgrade to the exact same oz carpet that the supra uses. Most of the accessories are the exact same between Supra and Moomba (when it comes down to showers, heaters, board racks, amps, tower speakers, stereos, biminis, covers, towers, etc), and the gauges come from the same manufacturer. |
Its a pretty cool deal to actually see how similar the Supra and Moombas are. Moomba just got a real bad rap from the mid 90s with the boomerang. They have come a super long way from those days!
|Marty, could you help me understand the price difference then? The carpet I see, but it looks like standard powertrain is also different. When I looked at these before, the Supra Rep at the show told me it was basically the interior and amenities that seperated the boats. I understand you can upgrade a Moomba, but I am talking about base packages here.|
|Keith, Moomba comes with a standard 310 Hp Carb Indmar Engine. The Surpa comes standard with the 320 Hp TBI Indmar. Of course it is an option to upgrade the engine in a Moomba. |
Also, you have to realize that the Supras are about an average foot longer than the Moombas. A Moomba Mobius and Mobius LSV is 20'8". The Supra Launch SS and Launch SSV is 21'8".
In a Moomba, CD Stereo, Depth Finder and all of those great things are optional. In a Supra, it is all Standard. Supra finishes out with a lot of stainless steel (rubrails, grab handles, etc). In a Moomba, this is optional.
A Supra rests on a Tandem Axle Trailer, standard. The Moomba is on a single axle except for the Mobius V.
There are many option differences that make the Supra more expensive then the Moomba. But you are right...the construction and everything is identical when you are talking about the building of the hulls and decks.
I hope that helps!
Waterski Boats Dallas
|Back to the original question: Moomba or Tige? |
Moomba. They're both junk but at least the Moomba doesn't have any wood, er sorry, quadrabeam.
|Jackie, what makes a Moomba junk? I would like to hear your personal opinion on them.|
Maybe you should come to WA/CA (whereever I'm at) and take me out on a Supra. The one I rode behind, the wake wasn't that impressive. The guy said he had 2000lbs. in it. I thought w/ the same amount of weight, the Super Air, X-Star, VLX, and even the Sanger, had much better wakes. The interior's real nice, though...right up there w/ the VLX. Does Supra give you tower options?
|Really? Define junk please? Any specifics? Any wood problems you have documented? |
I suppose anything other than the big 3 is junk???
|The tower is the ONLY reason I wouldn't strongly consider the Mobius LSV (other than the fact that I don't have a dealer close by now that I live in the Tampa Bay area). |
I just don't like the Rad-a cage, and I've never seen a Mobius with any other tower. I raised and lowered my old MC tower without help, and I just couldn't do it alone on my friend's Mobius with the Rad-a cage, especially with speakers and a bimini.
Any talk of a redesign on this tower?
|Hahaha Jackie... That was a very well thoughtout response. What are you basing that opinion on?|
|I gotta jump in here. I keep hearing that Sangers are low in the water. The reality is that Sanger has more deadrise at the stern than a Malibu. Maybe above the rubrail other brands have more inches, but from rubrail to the bottom, at the stern, Sanger is a deeper boat than most. The V-hull doesn't displace water as efficently as a flat bottom. The hull sinks deeper with the V. Digging a bigger hole means a bigger wake. |
Regarding the updating comment. Sanger has always used a V-hull in there comp boats. Most all of the bigger manufactures are now using a V in there wakeboard boats. Sanger is also responsible for the 3 piece hatch. So really Sanger is more of an innovator than you give them credit for.
The swim pad is humped because the hull is not flat like most rear engine compartments. The engine needs to be raised in order to fit it in.
It's all personal. No matter what the manufactures plate says on it. If it floats and gives you the pull and wake you like, you are way ahead of the game in my book.
|Talk about junk, the X-9. A slalom boat disguised as a W/B boat. |
|Chris are you joking? |
Gramps' 209 (Same boat) has one of the best wakes I have ridden. He has about 2400 pounds in there and none of it is in the way. That's hard to do in a direct drive. It drives great too.
It may not be worth paying the extra cash for an ugly X logo but Junk would be about the last thing I would call that boat.
I just hope I didn't give Gramps a big head.
|Chris, a friend of mine has a MC prostar 190 with a boss tower added. Its a 19' boat closed bow. Inside it is more comfortable than my other friends 21' sport Nautique. Both boats create great wakes. The 190 has an awesome wakeboarding wake when the boat is sacked. The hard part is sacking the boat with the closed bow.|
|No I'm not joking. All boats except Sangers are junk. When I say all I mean all. In fact all boats except the Sanger V210 are junk. |
I was just trying to show Jackie how stupid his comments were.
|Yes, my friends prostar 190 creates an awesome wake. Great shape and vertical component. A much better and more efficient wake than what my wakesetter VLX delivers. |
|Save even more money, buy a sanger DLX. Use the factory ballast and then stow some ballast under the floor and in the back ski locker and marvel at the size of your wake. Then, laugh out loud as you spin doughnuts in the slalom course at your local ski club and think about how great the boat handle all the weight. When your done doing that pull 3, maybe 4 boarders and realize just how right Sanger got it back in the 90's because it still feel solid.|
I have a Moomba Mobius and I have really enjoyed it. It is a 2001 model so it is the same hull as the Mobius LSV you are looking at. Price/Performance/Options were my reasons for buying the Moomba and unfortunatly the LSV line was not available in 2001. This is the first boat my wife and I have owned and it has been a pleasure. I will be stepping into a Supra next time around. The only thing I really wish I had was a Non-Carb motor, Not that it is horrible to have a Carb motor or anything but when I drive my buddies Malibu, I like that it is easier to operate due to the EFI motor in my opinion anyway. Other than that with the right weight you can get a really nice wake and enjoy many hours of fun for a low price tag. It is not a bad way to go. A lot of people where I live have Tige's as well and they all seem very happy with them as well. Bottom line take them out for test runs.
(Message edited by cws_kahuna on January 07, 2003)
Just for the record if I had a X9 slalom boat, I would in no way call anything else junk. I have boarded (or should I say attempted to board) behind a X9 and the wake is soooo weak.
I may be wrong and if I am, I am sure someone will correct me, but doesent the mastercraft have X-panel aka wood in under the dash where the windshield is mounted? I know at one time it did.
|Jackie- of all the people on this site, you would be the last one i would think could trash another boat manufacturer. i see on you profile you have an x9 (if this is true). obviously your knee injury did not come from that wake!!! give the guy a break; whether it be quadra beam or quadra steer- i haven't seen this guy say anything negative about your boat. just like whisperin' bill's girl said- we can all think how we want to.|
|Joe, I think you should know me well enough that I am very picky about the boats I ride behind. And I think you know that my personal boat is going to have the biggest wake possible. So, bro, you are more than welcome to come down here and ride with me, or if I ever see you on the left coast, we can go to the local Supra dealer or find someone that has one and we will go out and load it up the right way. |
As far as towers go, the only option from Skiers Choice for the Moomba and Supra towers are the Rad-A-Cage towers that you see on the boats. However, they are all the 6 point swoop towers now. Even the new Outback has the new 6 point swoop. They have the hand knobs on them that you just unscrew on each side of the boat and the tower folds forward. We are no longer using the 4 point towers that were found on the early boats.
Now, if you do load your tower up, then of course it will be much more heavy to fold down. But it still shouldn't be a problem with 2 people.
I am still waiting on Jackie's Answer.
Waterski Boats Dallas
|Kelsh, Chris, and Jackie, don't underestimate the wake of a (Prostar/X9) that is sacked down with the right amount of weight. |
I run 2400lbs of water and lead combined and it throws a big fat wake. Ask anyone that has been behind it and I think they will all agree. I don't have any sacks in the way either, they are all hidden along with the lead.
Here is a picture of the wake with Arun riding up at Lake Nacimiento this September, 2400lbs plus 4 people.
|First of all, |
Jackie, Think before you speak! Have you ever been behind either boat, or driven either?? I doubt it. I owned a MobV all last year and LOVED it! Everyone that rode behind that boat said it was one of, if not the best and biggest wakes they have ever hit. I have to agree with them! I might add, that literally Hundreds of people rode behind it. It was the choice of the Arizona Wakeboard Association's official towboat for 2002, and it did a hell of a job! As for Tige's new boats, They have made huge strides! and are kicking out killer, clean wakes now. Both of which are leaps and bounds better wakeboard boats than what you have listed on your profile! Think before you open your mouth on this board, because it if FULL of people who know MUCH more about the industry than you will ever!
|If you put 2400 lbs in any comp boat it is going to kick up a great wake. As long as it is distributed right. |
|A.P. I hate to say it, but that is not true. Some boats that are truly made for skiing are not going to throw a great wake with that amount of weight in them no matter how you distribute the weight. They will be slow out of the hole, drive very sluggish, and tend to have a washy wake. |
My boat handles like a sports car with that amount of weight in it and it gets on plane fast. The wake is firm and rock solid.
|Alright, I'm gonna do something that rarely happens here. That's right I'm gonna flame everybody on the board all at once. No,just kidding. I'm going to say that "junk" was probably the wrong choice of word. Except in the case of the Tige. McFly - Look, they're not the highest quality boat you could possibly get. Your detail of what is standard and what is not on them tends to support that statement. There are sturdier towers (with a legal pilot light on top of the rope spool), there are thicker windshield extrusions, there are interiors w/ 34 oz. vinyl (around reticulating foam), there are 100% All Hand Laid fiberglass boats with full length floor liners and closed cell injected floatation foam. There are boats with seats higher off the floor. I don't want to go on, you seem like a good guy. I do wanna say that there are boats other than Moomba that have higher quality build, higher resale value, and yes, HIGHER PRICES.|
|And now for you Gramps. Don't worry, I don't underestimate the wake X-9. All you need is the ballast and about 6 people and you got sweet shape, nice transitional approach and a good lip to launch off. I get a killer wake out of MY X-9. And that's after driving a Nautique, Malibu, MasterCraft, Tige, Moomba and Supra. But my search was incomplete because I didn't get to drive a Calabria. I decided, probably against my better judgement, to go with the X-9 despite my search being incomplete. I figure it's safe to say I made the right choice, because I really don't see anything being said about Calabria on this board. |
|Gramps- I was just trying to make a point. I know that they are a great boat. |
On another note, have you tried peeing on your feet?
Jackie- "stupid" was also a poor choice on my part.
|By Keith (rkg) on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 12:13 pm:
|Help me out here JC, exactly how is Tige junk? Because you did not like it on your test drive, so it's junk. Because they use wood that has yet to have any rot cliams?? Help me out here, because so far, you just sound like all talk. Seems Marty at least came back and gave a reasonable answer to his post, can you?? And by the way, do not compare what Mastercraft has and others do not as a sign of quality. There are many ways to build and yours may not be the best way either.|
|he has a point JC. |
Maybe I should have said "most" boats will kick up a good wake with 2400 lbs. I think a true test for a "good" wakeboard boat is on how the wake is with just the stock ballast system. It avoids any other hassles of buying more sacks or lead and trying to find a place to put it. Luckily you are able to hide all your ballast but it does take up some room in your storage.
My only point was whenever someone on this board asks "how do I get a bigger wake" everyone just responds with "add more weight". So yea 2400 lbs or even 1500 lbs in any boat is going to kick up the wake. MC does make very good boats. But you have to admit that the X-9 isn't the flagship wakeboarding boat for MC. With just the stock ballast, I’m sure you can agree the wake isn’t as impressive as most of the other boats out there. However it is well made and you can add all that weight and get a nice wake out of it.
As a Moomba owner, I am obviously going to personally biased against any other boats. But then again any boat owner who paid 30K-60K for their boat is going to think their boat is the best. You wouldn’t want to think you paid all that dough for a POS.
JC’s comment that all these boats are junk was thoughtless and invoked a hostile reaction from those of us who own these “junk” boats. But the X-9 is a boat who’s stock wake arguably isn’t as good as a Sanger or Moomba wakeboard specific boat that is comparable in price. With the X-9 all you are paying for is a MasterCraft sticker and that doesn’t give you the right to call all other boats “junk”.
(I will admit that I have never ridden behind an X-9. My opinion is only based on the wake I have seen on the water and the all the reviews/post I have read in this forum and many others)
|I think most of you see that I am not trying to cause any controversy. I am just trying to educate. I know that a lot of people have a bad opinion of Moomba due to the way they used to be. Now I am just trying to let those of you that do not know, exactly how they are now. |
All Moombas are sprayed with a CCP Armor Flex gel coat, and then a CCP Vinylester barrier coat is applied, and then it is hit with 100% hand laid glass, and then it is hit with another magnum ceramic barrier. It is all high density composites that make up motor mounts and other key areas, and it is a 100% fiberglass floor and liner system in the bottom of the boat.
They use a 34 oz laminated vinyl by G & T with an 18 mil top coat.
They are also using a one piece windshield instead of the original 2 piece style that was found on the 2002 and before boats.
The towers come from the same company that does the Mastercraft towers, and they do come standard with the 360 degree ANC light on top.
They have a Limited Lifetime warranty on the hull, deck, floors and stringers. They have a 1 year full warranty on vinyls- 1 year on parts and labor from Moomba. There are 4 additional years on vinyl fabric from G & T. There is also a 3 year Engine & Drive Train Warranty.
Just letting you guys know about Moomba. So, back to the original question, Michael, I hope all that information helps!
Waterski Boats Dallas
|Marty, Thanks. Even though I am not currently in the market, I appreciate when someone comes on and represents their shop the way you have and provides good information. I know it must be tiring trying to stamp out the ignorance and bias that surrounds Moomba boats, although it appears you guys are moving it in the right direction. |
|Well said Marty. I couldn't have said it better. |
|OK! OK! OK! I've got to throw in my two cents!!! This topic is getting incredible responses! At first is was a pissing match about Sanger boats, then what boat is the best, then a comparison between Moombas and Supras, then about all other boats except Sangers are junk, etc. etc. etc. |
OK! Anyone who says Skier's Choice boats are junk obviously don't know what they are talking about!! It's a blatant fact! The reviews of Skier's Choice boats are amongst the highest in every category. And no other boat on the market delivers like Moomba does at the same price!! FACT! I'm not saying Sanger, Malibu, Tige, MasterCraft or any other boats are junk because they're NOT! They just can't beat Moombas when it comes to more bang for your buck! I own a Moomba Outback and I'm extremely happy with it! Some of us don't have $30-40K to drop on a boat. And to add, Skier's Choice ranks high in customer satisfaction and you can attribute that to great dealers and in my mind that's number one when looking for a boat! So, Michael in opinion you can't beat a Skier's Choice boat. Skier's Choice stands behind their product and their dealers stand behind their customers!
|Jackie, I understand you being negative and all. If I couldn't afford a better boat I would be Jealous to0. The last time I saw an X-9 on our lakes it was picking up riders at a tournament.......Kind of like a Sea-doo. |
|A.P.: I've yet to ride behind a boat with stock ballast that I have been content with. My two favorites with stock ballast are the Super Air and the Sanger. However, the first thing I would do is add 2000 pounds. I think a lot of riders can agree with me on that.|
|Why does 2000lbs sound like a lot to me? Doesn't it put a lot of stress on the motor? |
I've had about 1700lbs plus 8 people before and to be honest, I didn't notice a differnce in performance... but it has to be hard on the motor.
|All you guys talk about adding ballast how about the new MB Sport B52VX2 2100 lbs of STOCK ballast beats all other boats. Demoed one and ordered one has a killer wake and wont need any more weight in it. As to all the other boats its what you like that counts not that brand X is better than brand Y. |
|Can't be good! |
|Tom that sounds like a step in the right direction. I'd like to see the wake.|
|A.P. I never said the X9 was the "flagship wakeboard boat" for MC. I was just pointing out that not all boats will throw a great wake with a lot of weight in them. Almost everyone I know will add more weight even to a WAKEBOARD specific boat. I have friends with Super Airs, Wakesetters, and X-Stars, they all add 1500lbs of additional weight to their boats. If I had any other boat out there that was so called "WAKEBOARD SPECIFIC" I would still add 1500lbs or more to it. |
Do you add additional weight to your Moomba?
As far as storage on my boat, my lead in the bow is under seat cushions, the lead in the rear is along side the gas tank, it is not taking any storage room up. I do have a 550lb bag in the rear locker, but I still have room to put stuff in it if I want. I have the whole storage area under my observers seat. My boat is sacked down and not one bag is taking any room up in the seating area, my whole floor is clear. The wake my boat puts out when sacked down is plenty good for even a top level rider.
When we ride we don't go hang out all day, we ride and go home. I haven't once said "I wish I had more storage" What do I need more storage for? My boards are up and out of the way, I have a cooler in the floor, I have a place for my dry stuff and a place for my wet stuff. What more do I need? I don't leave the boat unattended anywhere so leaving stuff in the boat doesn't come into play at all.
I don't bash other boats because I don't own them, I can only give you my opinion of my boat. Is it biased? Probably, my boat has done everything we wanted it to do and more, my dealer is awesome, the customer service is TOP NOTCH, the service department is TOP NOTCH.
If money is the big issue then yes there are some boats that are more pricey than others. There are some people who walk in and pay sticker price, there are some people like me who will wheel and deal until they get the price that they want. Why does a Super Air cost close to 60K? I have no freakin idea. I paid what I think was a fair price for what I think is a great boat, with great fit and finish. It looks great in and out of the water, is very functional, and has given me and my wife hours and hours of pleasure.
If you are ever in the area, look me up. I will take you out and let you judge for yourself.
Sorry for the long post.
|No flames from me Gramps. Well said!|
So you sold your other B-52 in your profile? How much? Why were you not happy with that boat? Wake not big enough for you? Just wanted to know. I only put 1500 lbs in my MB and its for skiing and it is fine for my taste and Im not a pro.
And what did you pay for your new B-52? $55K+
Gramps boat happens to be the biggest and best shape around this town I think. Weighted Xstars "may" even be some close comp. Whenever you are in SD come look the crew up and maybe we can get you a ride behind a World class Prostar 209 Wakeboard Boat. That's right! Most pros would be satisfied behind Gramps 209, I guarantee it. And that is with no sacs in the way either.
Everyone has there own specifics and preferences. My neighbor just got an '02 Mobius V for $26K if that tells you anything. Tige's are good boats as well. Bill J can attest to that, Im sure.
Red 209 Wakemaker rules! I'm out.
Lets ride SD, see you all at the boat show Saturday.
|When I drove the Tige, it was loud, hollow sounding, ride was a little on the rough side, and it didn't turn really well (I know I'm gonna be questioned about that turning statement - I have no explanation, just didn't like it's turning ability). I thought the interior was kinda pieced together and cheesey. The wake was nothing to shout about. That's all I got to say, it's just an opinion. Somebody out there likes Tige - about 980 in 2000, 745 in 2001, and 585 in 2002 - anybody see a trend here?|
|By Keith (rkg) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 7:49 am:
|Umm Jackie, the trend in 2002 maybe due to the long awaited new hull on the 22 V. Would you buy the old style when you knew the new one was coming out and you might like it better? No, most people are waiting to see what it is like and if they do not like, they can make a deal on a left over 2002. Also, Tige has stated they are limiting production on boats to protect resell values instead of flooding the martket with boats. I know our dealer sold every 21V they had and sold the other 2002s, except for one 22I. |
Not sure what Tige you drive, but rough ride?? As heavy as that boat is, rough ride would be the last thing I thought I would hear. I am used to the wake comments and wood commentsd, but not that one. As for your other comments, they are you opinion and your entitled. I could give my opinions on when I looked at an X Star, but those are best kept to myself.
|Slipknot Had no problems with my B 52 still have it wont be getting rid of it till new one comes just wanted a v drive otherwise love my B 52 and yes new one was 55 plus.|
I wasn't looking to attack you and your boat. I think when Jackie made the comment that “They're both junk” we had the natural reaction of wanting to attack his boat. Unfortunately you caught some of the shrapnel from that attack because you have the same boat. No hard feelings?
The thing that irritates me the most is when someone makes a blanket statement of “This boat sucks” or “That boat is crap” without providing any reasoning why. Finally Jackie explained why he doesn’t like the Tige but still haven’t provided any reasoning why he thinks the Moomba is junk. Maybe he is just trying to invoke a reaction. In that case it worked and now the thread is moderately interesting.
I think we should vote and finally put to rest of criticizing a boat because it has wood stringers. Maybe in the past wood was a problem but now with the new technology I don’t think someone can criticize a boat because it is made out of wood unless they can produce evidence that the new wood failed. The “Tige’s suck because they are made out of wood” argument needs to be laid to rest.
As for my Moomba I do actually only run it with the factory ballast and I’m pretty happy with it. But I know the wake can be pumped up with more weight. I also don’t make the claim that Moomba makes the best wakeboarding boats out there. However I will make the claim that the Moomba LSV is one of the best boats for its value. And I could go on and on why but my post is long enough as it is.
When I first started looking at boats I really wanted a Super Air, Malibu and even an X-star. And to this day whenever I see them on the water I feel a bit of jealousy. But in my situation I was buying a boat with my brother and we were going to take a $5000 loss on a boat trade in. Besides we couldn’t justify to our wives why we needed a 50-60K boat. After doing extensive research I came to the conclusion that a Mobius LSV was the best boat for me. And I couldn’t be happier. If people can afford the CC 210 TE then go ahead and buy it and we will all drool over the pictures. But the most important decision in buying a boat is buying something you like and doesn’t put a financial strain on your family.
To each his own.
Gramps – Thanks for the offer. I would love to ride in your boat. The wake sounds sick. If you’re ever up here and want to ride in a “stock” Mobius LSV let me know.
|Lets really put things into perspective. |
I see guys all the time with old Bayliners having the time of their life out on the lake, which is what boating should be all about, HAVING FUN, not trying to make people feel they bought a piece of crap because it was not what you bought.
I think all of these boats are great boats. Anything with a $30,000+ price tag probably is not that bad. Sure everyone has their own preferance which is why there is more than just one boat maker in the world. I get so frustrated reading all these this boat sucks or that boat sucks posts. I know sometimes people do get a lemon but the same thing happens with cars too. Moomba will always be looked down upon because they sell a less expensive WAKEBOARD/SKI boat. Remember though Moomba is Skiers Choice lower line made for people who don't want or cannot afford $40 - $60K for a boat. I don't ever hear these complaints about the Supra line, which is made by the same people and have alot of the same features. Reality sets in when you have things like house payments, car payments, maybe kids to feed, and credit card bills etc...Then if you are in the market for a boat you usually know what you can afford or what you want to spend on a monthly payment. Owning a boat should be fun and should not put you in a position to where you can not afford things like your house and car payments. I bought a Moomba and I am happy with it and I am happy with Skiers Choice. You really never see any negative feedback on this website about Skiers Choice, and the fact that guys from their company chime in now and then makes me even that much happier to own one of their products. I would recommend a Moomba or Supra to anyone.
A.P.(bigdad) - Well said on your last post.
|Great point Richard / A.P., and as well, I would like to express my apologies to My boy gramps, and anyone else I might have offended on my comments on the X-9. Just lashing out (I am ashamed of myself!) |
It's amazing how your mentality can drop to a foul mouthed, spit wad shooting, fighting grade school kid in no time on this message board, I am referring to myself..
|Everyone, No hard feelings what so ever! I didn't take it personal, the site is to get as much info as possible. This has been a good thread with lots of useful info. |
I don't care what boat it is, the manufacturers are killing US ALL with the price of the boats these days, and I think we can all agree on that.
Buggman, were still boys!
|AWWW MANNNN!!!! |
I miss my X-9!!!
I sold it right after I moved to Tampa Bay in favor of eventually getting a V-Drive boat, now I'm kicking myself when I realize how much more I'm going to have to pay to own A SMALLER BOAT!
My X-9 had plumbed-in removable side sacks, so I didn't have the luxury of having weight PLUS floor space. I wish I had read GRAMPS posts before I had them installed. I would have followed his lead and been much happier today.
The X-9 may not be the premier wakeboard boat, but it is possibly the best looking boat on the water with the coolest and most usable interior layout(without sacks on the floor), and it throws a great wake when weighted down A LOT!!!
Here's a pic...
|God I'm so over these kinds of conversations.|
|I have an X-Star and it has a top notch wake with only the factory KGB weight. Ask Kevin Bird and Arun if you don't believe me. In fact, I think I've only used sacs once or twice all last summer. |
But you've got like 15 people in your boat. I've ridden behind X-Stars and liked it with extra weight. Ask Kevin and Arun if they'd prefer more weight. I'm willing to bet they'd say "yes".
|I will say this after riding with Gramps this morning, I can't imagine a better direct drive wakeboard boat than the Prostar 209 (X-9) the way he has it set up. |
He's got 2400 lbs hidden in that thing and you would never know it. The only place you even see a sack is under the back seat (the stock bag) and he throws a 150 lb bag on the floor in front of that, right behind the engine box, which is very non-obtrusive. The rest is hidden and/or is lead.
And, you might think it would be hard filling all those bags and time consuming but I think Gramps can have the boat up and running in less than 10 minutes. Lastly, for having that much weight in it, it planes out nicely and handles like a dream.
Sorry to gush, but Gramps has spent a lot of time and put a lot of thought into his boat and I challenge anyone to find a better direct drive setup out there for wakeboarding.
Did I mention the wake is huge, steep (but not too steep), and firm?
While I love my boat ('02 Malibu Sunsetter LXi), I run 1825 lbs plus the wedge right now and the wake is nowhere near what the Prostar is throwing out and it doesn't handle or plane out as well (although going 4-blade would help the planing, I think) because of the wedge.
Were I to go back one year and do my purchase over, knowing what I know now, I would go v-drive, probably a VLX (but maybe an X-star or Super Air). But if I absolutely had to go with a direct drive, I probably would buy the Prostar and set it up like Gramps. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly content with my ride, but I would do things differently probably all things being equal.
Thanks again for the pulls, Gramps!!!!
|Paul, you are obviously a high integrity person. |
"While I love my boat"...
A rare person can take off their ownership goggles.
BTW, I am also a huge fan of the prostar wake. Matt Richie's prostar wake kicks my VLX wake. His boat is awesome minus the fact that is is hard to sack down (closed bow) and it has the motor in the middle (social/comfort issue).
|CHECK OUT THE NEW V208 SKY SUPREME.....40,000 LOADED!!!|
|This poor guy just wanted an opinion between 2 boats, and it turned into a war. its a shame we could not help him.|
|My opinion is that if price is no option then the Tige is definately the way to go. First off the cage is built directly into the hull. It' also owns the heaviest dry weight between the two and the workmanship of the boat is much more solid. As far as the wood stringers are concerned, there has never been a complaint about rot and they provide a smoother quieter ride than fiberglass. Rot may occur in time, but look at your pressure treated dock; it'll last 15-20 years fully exposed, so the stingers will be okay for twice that at least. By that time your Tige will be dead due to some other circumstance I'm sure. I love my Tige.|
|My pressure-treated DECK didn't last 10 years, and the only water it encountered was rain. If that were the standard, any boat-builder using wood would be in trouble. But, my understanding is that the treated wood used by Tige is much, much more rot-resistant than pressure-treated wood. |
As for the original issue, both boats have their proponents and detractors. If Michael is having a hard time justifying the price differential given his finances and priorities, I think he's answered his own question better than anyone else can.
|ok ok ok ride in all the boats( that you are considerring), drive all the boats, and ride BEHIND all the boats, compare prices and features-standard and optional, make sure the trailer is included-and its features, check track history on all the boats, and look into their construction, then decide---- please take it from a long time boat owner i have had three boats with wood problems including a 1994 crownline which i spent 3000 repairing( making it better than new ) dont buy anything with any wood in it......... |
make sure you try a launch ssv from supra i think if you try them and price them all you will have an easy choice to make SUPRA LAUNCH SSV
|Aaron, although I have have no issues with Tige and their wood stringers I find your theory to be flawed. Take that same piece of pressure treated wood you build your deck with, put it in a dark and damp area with virtually no air flow and see if you get 15 years out of it......NOT GONNA HAPPEN!|
|The other suggestion I have for demoing is to demo how you are going to use it. I don't just mean ride behind it, but if you are typically going to have 8 people go with you, take 8 people on the demo, if all 8 bring their own boards, vest, backpacks, whatever, have them bring all of that. It doesn't do any good to demo a boat with just you, the salesperson and no gear if that's not how you are going to use it. If you have to travel over rough water to get to your favorite riding spot, make sure to run the boat in rough water. |
Steve, whether the XL wood that Tige' uses gets wet or not doesn't matter. Keeping it free of moisture is not what makes it rot-proof, it's the chemical treatment.
|I seriously considered trading an old car of mine for a '46 Chris Craft(Hi Peter). That's a real mans' boat, mahogany, not a speck of silly fiberglass! It is still used every summer as a pleasure boat, not a museum piece. There are all wood boats everywhere that are still floating. I looked at one the other day that has been in salt water her whole life and is 138 yrs old. The Tige "wood" thing is a non-issue, brought up by uninformed people that haven't been around boats very long. Granted, any boat that isn't cared for properly will probably deteriorate quickly. Fiberglass will deteriorate just like wood if water seeps in behind the Gelcoat. |
BTW, Gramps, that wake is HUGE in your pics! As if 99.8% of us can do something with a wake that size besides bust our a$$es!
|Re-read my post Nick. I'm not questioning the durability and longevity of Tige's stringers, I'm very familure with the process. |
|Just to clarify the argument here, pressure treated decking you buy at Lowes etc is not in the same league of chemical treatment/pressure treated and lamination process that XL panel is. |
If there was a chance that this product EVER failed or did not live up to its warranty we would not use it. If you take the marine industry as a whole more manufactureres use XL than do not. It is very widely used in ofshore product such as Grady White and yachts/offshore racing product.
LifePlus10K construction warranty protects our 2003 product for life for the original owners against separation, degradation and rot. We replace the boat with a brand new one if there is ever a failure and pay you $10k for the inconvenience.
I am new to this argument so please excuse any questions that you have answered over and over again.
If you know wood is constantly causing consumer concern (which it obviously does), why continue using it instead of going to fiberglass?
If there is ZERO chance the wood will ever fail, than why not make the lifetime warranty on the stringers transferable? Failure to do so causes resale problems, thus devaluing the original price of the Tige and, it would seem, hurting your bottom line. As someone who will likely sell and move into a new boat every few years, resale is a very big concern to me. What do I tell a potential buyer of my Tige when he asks about the wood? I can't tell him that you guarantee it because you didn't make the warranty transferable.
I am legitimately asking these questions. I plan to buy later this year or perhaps next year, and I am pretty much narrowed down to a CC Air210, MC X-2 (possibly X-star if it lives up to the hype), and Tige 22V.
Thanks in advance for your answers to these questions.
|I thought the new 10K+ warranty or whatever it's called is transferrable? |
|Hey Steve, |
Sorry about that, I guess I just mis-read your post.
|The dock analogy as just an example. Of course the wood used in the stringers is treated differently and more appropriately. Not only does the warranty have me convinced my Tige will last but also think of ocean racing cigarette boats; Almost all incorporate wood stringers in order to provide a quieter and smoother ride through rough water. As for you swass the warranty is transferable, although life turns into 10 years after the sale. |
|Andre, the warranty is transferable for up to ten years from the original purchase date. For instance if you own the boat 5 years there is 5 more years of structural warranty to transfer.|
|Thanks for the info, Brett. |
Can you tell me the reason the lifetime portion is not transferable? If there is "ZERO chance the wood will ever fail" (your exact words) than why not make the lifetime warranty, at least on all wood, transferable?
|Huh? Offshore racing boats "incorporate wood in stringers in order to provide a quieter . . . ride"? Have you heard these things with two (or three, or four) big blocks bellowing through unmuffled exhaust? It sure doesn't seem like quietness is a high priority in these applications.|
|Andre, I think one of the reasons they don't change thier manufacturing method is that the wood stringers do a better job of dampening vibration and absorbing shock in rough water. I can honestly say the Tiges I drove were some of the most solid feeling and best handling boats in rough water. |
Aaron....no biggie, I just didn't want there to be any confusion as to the point I was making and it had nothing to do with Tige.