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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through February 10, 2003 » Tower Speakers Etc. Questions « Previous Next »
By Blake (whirly) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 8:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey guys,

Sorry for all the posts on the tower speakers, but I'm just looking for some help... besides I'm quite new to all this speaker/amp stuff. Anyways, I just received my new B60's and am considering putting dynamat in them. I didn't try really hard to get the grill of them, but it certainly didn't seem like it wanted to come off. Naturally I'm a little hesitant to mess with my new prized pocessions though. Any ideas on how to pry them off easily? Also, when applying dynamat, how do you fit and cut the peices to fit in the tube? Just one?

Second of all, I was wondering if this amp: (http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-qJAzhc4F84M/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=110&I=206KX3002&o=m&a=0) would be a good choice. I noticed when looking in the specs that it had a high/low crossover and as little as I know, I believe that's for a subwoofer? Now if it is, would it be better to wire my sub (10" Clarion) to that amp?

Finally, I am looking to rid of the old Clarion deck that I have due to the fact that it always skips unless the CD is perfectly scratchless? Any recommendations on those to power the stock speakers?

Thanks for all the help


blake


(Message edited by whirly on December 09, 2002)

 
By Ryan (ocrider) on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 9:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Blake,

Try using some really small thumb tacks and stick them through the holes in the grill...then gently pry the whole grill off. I usually put them about an inch apart on one side and then lift up gently. There isn't really anything holding the grills in place usually..there might be some black goopy stuff, but that's about it.

Ryan

 
By Stewart McLean (gizel) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 6:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The boss B60's come with MB Quart speakers, they use a small groved rubber gasket, that the grill side fit into and then you press fit them into the housing. You can use a paper clip or something like that. Just so you know Dynamat will not really help that much. It is to small of an enclosuse to resonate too much so it will not really effect it.
 
By wakeman (skihardkore) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 7:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
THat amp would be a great amp for your sub. It would kick nicely. it would also be awesome for your speakers. Alot of amps now have internal crossovers.
 
By David Russell Owner (skierscove) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dynamat is not for speaker inclosers. It is for sound deadening. So there is no out side interferance with the speakers operation. Leave the speakers alone. Cross them over about 120-200 depending on the power you put to them. If you really want to know call the manufacture. They will help you as they do not want there stuff on the market sounding poorly.
 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 11:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dave you are so wrong about Dynamat. The enclosures ring and make the speakers tinie. Dynamat or V-Maxx will deaden the enclosures and do wonders for the speaker sounds.
 
By Bill J (sdboardr99) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 11:14 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I agree completely with Phaeton. If the speaker canisters were solid (meaning thick walls) then yeah it wouldn't help much. But thin aluminum walls make for a terrible acoustical environment. I have similar speakers from Ryno-Gear and the difference is dramatic - you can crank them up as much as you want and the sound is still clean (obviously that is also dependent on the amp). And for about $30 for two speakers it's worth it.

 
By Grant (mtbmudmachine) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Phaeton and Bill are both correct: Infact you can hear quite a differance, With and with out the dyna-mat, Boss should think dyna-mat coming stock with The speakers
 
By Kevin Geary (wakescene) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 1:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dynamat and other sound deadening type materials are God's greatest gift to Audio whether it be Car, Boat, enclosure or other!!!

KG

 
By John Thomas (wakeskate2003) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 4:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dyno-mat is good for taking the ping out but for taking the back wave out a little poly fill from a pillow or fiberglass insalation goes alot farther. That is a good point about the speakers bing in a alumanum incloser.
 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 5:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
John that's why my canisters have V-max and Deflex panels in them.
http://www.cascadeaudio.com/

 
By Bill J (sdboardr99) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 6:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Phaeton, so do you think it's necessary to use a Deflex panel instead of just putting Dynamat/V-max on all interior surfaces? What about Dynamat and some poly fill?
 
By David Russell Owner (skierscove) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 6:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I used to be the head installer at Customs Car Alarm out of Walnut Creek in California. Most Hi end installers know of this place. We did nothing but 20-30k systems. I was ranked in car stereo review to be in the top 20 three years in a row and in the top 10. But that was 8 years ago. A lot has changed. I like to keep it simple. The idea behind car audio is to make the speaker have no out side interferance. That is to say so sound waves hitting the back of the speaker. The sooner the speaker can come to a rest between notes the more accurat it is and the better it sounds. The first way to do that is to make sure there is no flex. Dynamat is good for that. The second is to make sure there is no back wave. Poly fill is good for that. The ping you guys are talking about is like hitting a can with a hammer. Dynamate will fix this and take out the sound but will not help with the back wave. The back wave is from the speaker and is also cancalation. Both are bad. Poly fill fixes this. V-max is like dynamat but if you notice it has circuler rings in it to defuse the back wave or disrupt it.

Have fun with it.

 
By Blake (whirly) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 8:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks for all the response guys!

I'm still a bit confused on this cross over that's on the amp. Is it for a seperate sub? For the tower speakers? I'm lost.

blake

 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 8:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bill Dynamate and V-max are similar products. Use either one. What is great about the Deflex panels is that they do the same thing as poly fil without taking up any air space.
 
By andrew zarlengo (colorider) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 9:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Audio gurus. I am interested in the airspace area of a speaker. I put some foam rubber stuff in my speakers instead of polyfil. It is that acousitic egg crate looking stuff. I just put in one layer in the back of the speeaker housing. My housings are the huge westmarine xxl housings, but with different components. Could I have taken up too much airspace? If so, how can I tell. I cant run the speakers yet because my boat is all wrapped up in storage. I could hook them up to my home stereo and check them though. What should I look for in sound quality of charictaristics if there is too little airspace. And once again thanks for your expetice.
 
By David Russell Owner (skierscove) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 7:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
First thing is first, contact the manufacture and find out what they recommend. If it is a high quility sub the manufacture has already done the work for you.

Next take the inside h x w x l= and then divide it by 1728 and that will give you you box size. I got 1728 by muiltiplying 12h x 12w x 12l= 1728 that is how you convert squere inches to sq. feet.

 
By David Russell Owner (skierscove) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 7:29 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Phaeton is not right about poly fill. If you have a small incloser and want to fool the speaker into thinking it has a bigger one. By stuffing the box full of poly fill you can trick it into thinking it has up to 17% more room. But don't take my word for it. If you realy want to learn about thin stuff there are books in the librey that are extreamly good on this stuff. I have to tell you I had to read them about 10 times to get them. They are not easy to understand but are well worth the read if you realy want to get into designing your own cazey systems.
 
By swass (swass) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 7:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
For the money they charge for those things, they should come with that stuff already.
 
By David Russell Owner (skierscove) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 7:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you guys are tired of payng to much for tower speaker check out mtx MP2s I recommend the 5 1/4 in each box there are to 5 1/4 and one tweeter. Retail though my store is 229.95 for a pair. And 179.95 for the 4s. You have to make your own mount but for the money you can't tuch it. I have two pair and 400watts to them and they are clean and loud as hell. 913-385-3838 is my shop number
 
By Ken (kschroeder) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 8:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Any of you guys try the spray on dynamat I think it is called dynashield? I bought 3 cans of it to spray the inside of my canisters and couldn't get crap out of them. I think they may have gotten frozen sitting in a warehouse or something during shipping and when they unthawed didn't work anymore.
 
By David Russell Owner (skierscove) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 9:44 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
the cross over will work for one or the other. Unless you want to go pasive. but for that take it to a car audio place. I would suggest a diffrent amp though. That one is a waste of power. At 1 ohm mono it is putting out 300watt but at 4 ohms you are only going to get 75 for the sub unless you put in two and drop it to 2 ohms then you will get 150 watts. And for your tower speakers unless you bridge them down to 2 ohms to get 150 watts you are only going to get 150. That is waste of 150 watts. Try and find a amp that is 4 ohm stable in mono witch will give you the most power and two ohms in stereo. look for a 4 channel it will be best. Kicker does make a line for this so does soundstream and ads.

In order to do a stereo right you have to deside how many speaker you are going to have and then what your impedance is going to be (ohms) then buy your amps to get the most power out of them. Other wise you are wasting your money....

 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 2:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
David the only speaker you want to fool would be the sub not the mids and tweets. I think I am one of the few who has subs up on the tower. Boss tower setups are just mids and tweets.

(Message edited by phaeton on December 11, 2002)

 
By Grant (mtbmudmachine) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 2:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The back of the Boss cans have the cross over's mounted to them it's a Cross-over Box. It will make it hard to mount the De-flex pads to the back of the can what would you sugest The polly fill or egg crate stuff would work better in this application because of the uneven surface???
 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 3:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Go with the poly fill.

(Message edited by phaeton on December 11, 2002)

 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 3:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Like David said I would go with a bigger amp the KX 600.4 is what I am running for the tower setup. You can never have too much power.
 
By Phaeton (phaeton) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 4:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
You can get the KX 600.4 off ebay for around $200.00
 
By Kevin Geary (wakescene) on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 4:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have to inject here...

The box I built for my tower has 4 - 6.5's JL's in it. I was sure to add poly fill to the chambers the speakers reside in (even though they were the manufacturers reccommended size) to get the effect I wanted. I was able to get a better low-end response out of the 6.5's via the "Trick" of the poly-fill. It works equally as well for midrange speakers (5.5's & 6.5's) as it does for Sub-woffers.
To really see (meaning hear) the effects though, one must have good working knowledge of speaker response, X-over points and db rolloff to make it work correctly and ensure that you get the response at the lower frequencies, but don't create high amounts of distortion at high volume levels.

I run the tower @ a 24db per octave rolloff, and with the poly-fill I was able to get the extra low-end response out of the 6.5''s I needed to accent the sub in my boat. The 6.5's are clean down to 65hz at around 118db!


KG

 
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