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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through February 10, 2003 » 02' MC X-10 or Supra Launch SSV or WakesetterVLX ? « Previous Next »
By Paul Brundage (livingston) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 6:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Are there any of these boats you wouldn't buy? Whicj one is best
 
By maz (greatdane) on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 6:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
All three companies make nice boats. I have heard that the x-star/series builds a better wake than the x10.
 
By Joe Umali (dakid) on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 2:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
X-10 wake is super rampy and super wide. It's not similar to the X-Star wake at all. The X-Star wake is similar to that of the Super Air, but not as clean. Supra Launch SSV requires a lot of weight. I rode w/ a guy that has one and said it had close to 2000lbs. in it. The bag all looked full, with not much air in it. The wake was rampy, and small, compared to other boats I've ridden in w/ the same amount of weight. The Wakesetter VLX wake is rampy, but if you use the wedge, it gets steep. Also, the wake just gets bigger, the more weight you add.

The interior's nice in all of the boats you listed, with the Launch and the Wakesetter having really plush interiors.

Out of those three, I would buy the VLX.

(Message edited by dakid on October 07, 2002)

 
By matt kelly (proairrules) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 12:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I run the factory weight in my ssv and the wake is the same size as my buddies with the 02 xstar and he runs over 2000 lbs. I don't know what ssv you were behind but the wake behind mine is sick.
 
By Joe Umali (dakid) on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 3:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Supra Launch SSV...that SSV.

If you like it, fine. I just found the wake to be smaller than some of the boats I've ridden behind(Super Air, X-Star, Malibu, Sanger).

 
By Pat Borowski (bambamski) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ride behind them and make your own opinion. This was a pic that Rob Leslie took behind my boat X-10 (he's just wiped out). Water was kind of rough that day but it gives you a good idea of what the wake can look like. Rob rides behind his dad's sportster and I think he was very intimidated by the size of the wake on mine. I fill the KGB and add a 300 pound sack to the bow and the wake is as big as I'll ever need it.


wake x-10

 
By Bill (skionone) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Anyone care about quality and not just wake. I don't think that Supra has near the same quality as MC or Malibu not to mention a few others. Also really depends on what you are wanting to spend??
 
By Jeff Guilford (fogey) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 9:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ah! The old, "It costs more, so it must be better" line of reasoning.

Try selling that logic to Cadillac Catera owners who now wish they had bought a "cheaper" Acura TL. Other examples abound (e.g., read any issue of Consumer Reports), but reciting them just would be redundant.

 
By mccook (mccook) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
You have a point with that logic for certain items Jeff, this is not one of them. While Supra isn't a cheap boat by any means it doesn't have the overall quality of the Malibu, MC, or Nautique. If they did offer the same overall quality the price point wouldn't be an issue b/c then Supra would cost just as much as any other boat out there. And yes I have had quite a bit of background with Supra boats.
 
By Marty McFly (mcfly) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
You also have to take into account the amount of overhead that each company has. The more overhead, the higher the price must rise in order to make an overall profit.

Many people do not realize that most of the manufacturers all get their vinyl, glass and other products that go into the construction of the boat from the same factories. Just because a fully loaded SSV is 10K less than a fully loaded Team Edition doesn't mean that the Correct Craft has 10K more worth of quality.

Most people just do not realize all the similar materials that are put into these different boats. I had no idea until I found out first hand and talked to each of the different material manufacturers. I was very suprised to see many of the different companies purchasing their materials from the same factories.

McFly

 
By Pat Borowski (bambamski) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I heard that Mercedes purchases a lot of their materials from the same company that also supplies Hyundai??? Must mean the Benz is way over priced??
 
By tre (tre) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I wish you all would stop this "It costs more, so it must be better stuff". Have you ever heard of a boat that fell apart in 5 or 10 years because the quality was not good? I have not. Every 10 year old boat shows some wear.

I don't know how some of you form opinions on wake size and shape. "I saw this X10's wake across the lake and mine is better" just does not cut it. I think you really need to spend a lot of time behind a boat to judge the wake. Look at my profile picture. It is a Supra Launch with only 700 pounds and two people in it. I am 6 feet tall. Does this mean I am going to say my wake is the best? No! Why not? Because I have not spent a lot of time behind every other wakeboard boat made. I don't have enough information to form an educated opinion and I think most of you don't either.

My conclusion - Don't speak about what you don't know. If you know what you are talking about, support your opinion with some facts!

 
By Joe Umali (dakid) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
My opinions were formed from riding in and behind these boats.

Calm down...message boards are, for one, for opinions!

 
By matt kelly (proairrules) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The fact of the matter is...I've ridden behind the following boats:

2000 pro air
2000 super air
2001 x 10
2001 x star
2002 supra ssv
2002 malibu wakesetter

The malibu had stock ballast and no wedge and a tiny wake. the x star had 500 to 700 extra pounds and a nice wake, long and rampy. The x star has over 2000 lbs in it and has a big steep wake. the super air has factory ballast and has a good size steep wake. the pro iar had 400 extra lbs and the factory ballast and had a good size steep wake. The ssv has factory ballast.

So far the ssv has the biggest wake for the least amount of weight in the group. The quality is realtively close to the same for all of these boats. Fit and finish and were excellent for all of the boats. Actually the nauti's and the mastercrafts have had the most problems from day one than the others.

If you like what you've picked, that's great! Enjoy it every day you can.

 
By matt (supraman) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 2:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey mccook -- I think you've got some anti-Supra bias going on. Weren't you the guy who repeatedly posted on another thread that Supras were inferior because you couldn't get the PerfectPass to hold the speed you wanted??? (Like that's a manufactuer issue!?)

Also, to be blunt, your logic sucks. I'll quote:

"If they did offer the same overall quality the price point wouldn't be an issue b/c then Supra would cost just as much as any other boat out there."

Sooo, if products are equal in quality, it's inconceivable that one could cost less than another. Is that about right? In other words, there's no such thing as "value" or "getting more for your money" because if it costs less, it can't possibly be as good.

By the way, while each manufacturer seems to have some cool things that are unique to their boat lineup, I thought I'd point out a couple areas where Supra has been leading the pack. One is stainless-steel rub rails, which some people hate but I love. Also, multiple swim platform options. I REALLY like the platform on ours and the indestructible-yet-cushy lining on it.

Just my .02

 
By Kevin (airastro) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 3:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Everyone is forgetting the sponsorship overhead in the big 3. Every Nautique that rolls off the line has $5,000.00 built into it, to pay for the all the riders / skiers they sponsor.
 
By Pat Borowski (bambamski) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 3:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you're going to compare costs you also have to look at the big picture when you're trying to dissect why one boat costs more than another. Mastercraft and Malibu are fairly large companies thus employing more employees than say Supra or Tige. Not all these employees are building the boats, some work in marketing/sales, customer service/warranties and the biggest cost of RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT.

The boating industry isn't new, people have been building boats for quite some time. Wakeboarding is relatively new however, and if you think about it the inboard boating industry spent the last 25 years trying to build a boat that didn't produce a wake at all. Here comes wakeboarding and it's the exact opposite, we want the biggest wake possible. The problem is nobody has really radically changed the hull of there boat, they're pretty much just adding more weight which in the long run probably isn't the answer. Along comes the new X-star and everyone is buzzing about the 'Bat Boat'. Some say it's ugly, some like it, however how many people are interested to see how it does on the water? Look at the kind of interest MC has generated about the boat and the boat hasn't even hit the water yet. I talked to my dealer on the weekend and they said this boat will change how boarding boats will be built in the future. I'll admit it's a pretty bold statement and we'll have to see if the boat lives up to the hype. How many other boats manufacturers came up with a big new hull design this year? None. Some changed the tower, some changed the interior.

So if your wondering why a boat costs more than another one you can't just look at the materials that go into building it. Maybe the smaller guys of the boating world offer more bang for the buck right now, that's up to you to decide for yourself. However if they don't move with the times they're going to get left behind. One last thing, when I was talking with the CC dealer last year he said the easiest and cheapest way to make a boat look better was to spend a couple of extra dollars on the interior of the boat. His opinion was don't get fooled into thinking because the interior is well done that means the rest of the boat is built the same way which isn't always the case. Anyways off to the hockey game....

my $.02

 
By mccook (mccook) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 3:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Everyone has their right to their $.02. No I am not saying what you implied supraman, as a matter of fact I have stated repeatedly that Supras are good boats. Do you seem to be a little paranoid as a supra owner? To address your statement, no it is not inconceivable that products of the same quality will not have the same price. Not at all. But that is not the situation we are dealing with here. Supras do not have the overall fit, finish, and front-to-back build quality as the big 3. But they ARE good boats (happy?). Why yes they have broken down massive barriers with a stainless rub rail and multiple teak options, and that is great. But my logic doesn't suck supraman, it is just my $.02. Take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me :-)
 
By Joe Umali (dakid) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 3:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Supra and Sanger can sponsor me, if they want. I don't care if they're much smaller than the big 3. I won't complain.
 
By tre (tre) on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 6:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sorry Joe, I'll calm down.

My point was to support an opinion with some facts. Tell me how the opinion was formed. Matt Kelly did a great Job above. He stated the facts about all the boats he has been behind (how they were weighted, etc.) and gave us his opinion. He supported his opinion by telling us he rode behind all the boats. He is not just some Supra owner saying his wake is best.

I was also not directing my comments at you Joe. I hope you did not take it that way. It was just more of a general rant. I want to know the facts behind the opinion.

for example, if I ride behind un unweighted X-Star and then a Wakesetter VLX with 2000lbs plus a wedge, I will tell everybody the Malibu wake was way better then the X-Star.

 
By Joe Umali (dakid) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 12:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
No worries, tre. I'll tell you what...if you or anyone want my opinion on any boat performance (wake and such), ask me. If I can answer I will give you my honest opinion. Compare mine w/ others. Then demo the boat. I'm sure you know, though, that I'm the biggest boat slut here, meaning I've ridden behind a lot of different boats. I don't have a boat, so I'm not biased, though I have favorites. If I've never ridden the boat, I don't and won't give false opinion.
 
By Jeff Reese (jeffr) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 1:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Joe,
Don’t lie… we know why you use this forum. Posting complements on wakes and riding ability keep you on the top of the boat slut list.
Or.. maybe you are getting kick backs from the boat companies to fund your recent move to WA.


 
By Joe Umali (dakid) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 2:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff,

I can only wish that posting complements on wake would get me on top of the boat slut list. It worked in NorCal, and worked a few times in WA, but I'm not there, yet.

 
By Mike Bader (fukenrude) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 2:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
yo mccook,

you said "Supras do not have the overall fit, finish, and front-to-back build quality as the big 3." I ask you to provide evidence of such. I spent 3 painful years researching boats before I bought my 02 supra. I ended up there for reasons of quality, I could find no difference between the big 3 and supra. I did my research, so tell me how yours shows that supra is inferior.

You bought a brand, I bought a boat.

rude out.


 
By mccook (mccook) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 4:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
How's this fukenretadred (Mike Bader)...I have owned a Supra Comp, Supra Sunsport, Nautique 2001 BareFoot, MasterCraft X-Star, Malibu Sunsetter, Wakesetter VLX, and now I have a 2003 Super Air for next season. While you were out kicking tires for 3 years trying to decide on your ride.......I was out on the water putting these boats to the test, showing them to customers and taking notes on the differences between the models I had and the ones had been behind. When it was all said and done I found I prefer Malibu and Nautiques boats to the others. You may prefer Supra....hell you may prefer guys. who knows and who cares. LIKE I SAID.....SUPRAS ARE GOOD BOATS. Now go to bed little boy, you're done, get some sleep, recoup from your years of research and worry more about riding than what I say. :-)
 
By Jeff Guilford (fogey) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 7:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nice slash-and-burn job. Of couse, you studiously avoided answering the question, and the personal insults pretty much shred your credibility. But, as you say, "Who cares?"
 
By mccook (mccook) on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 9:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I answered his question Jeff. I told him how i came to the conclusions I did. You are right though, I was very juvenile to make the rude statement I did. Mike, I apologize. Ride your Supra with pride and I'll do the same with my boat. thats what it is all about anyhow. :-)
 
By Matthew Bird (ldr) on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 1:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
As far as money goes i think you get what you pay for. My family bought a new x star in 2001 and to my surprise if i were to try to buy a supra or malibu with the same features they would have ended up costing even more than the x star. as for construction and quality goes. i was talking to a neighbor of mine who works at western california yacht sales and has dealt with just about any boat you can think of. And his opinion was that all boats are pretty comparable in quality especially in this day and age.
 
By Jackie Chiles (huss) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 2:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
So, look at the top post. We've all done nothing to help this guy out. It's been said though, go study 'em, look at 'em, drive 'em, ride 'em. And get what you think is best for YOU.
 
By Matt Cour (mcsammamish) on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 1:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul, have you made up your mind yet, or are still lokking for more opinions?
 
By Matt Cour (mcsammamish) on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 1:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul, have you made up your mind yet, or are still lokking for more opinions?

Are you looking for a boat to haul a lot of people around, big lake boat, biggest wakes possible, let us know what features and functions are important to you.

 
By Matt Cour (mcsammamish) on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 1:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul, have you made up your mind yet, or are still lokking for more opinions?

Are you looking for a boat to haul a lot of people around, big lake boat, biggest wakes possible, let us know what features and functions are important to you.

 
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