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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through April 21, 2006 » Custom Crank and Water pump Pully's « Previous Next »
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 9:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Im looking to upgrade my HO alternator to a New alternator that has 2 belts instead of one. I now have a single 3/8 inch pully running my alternator. I need to get some new pully's so that the new alternator with 2 belt's can work. I need a new crank shaft pully. My current crank shaft puly has 2 groove's in the pully. I need a new pully with 3 groove's. I also need a water pump pully with 3 groove's. I have been calling around it dosent seem like sutch pully's exist's and I might have to have a new pully turned. Any one have andy ideas where I can have somthing made. Or if this part already around? Its for a Ford PCM 351W LT
Upload

 
By jan w (jwag) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
March Performance

http://www.marchperf.com/

 
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
March dont have them. Only under driven pullys with 2 belt's no 3 belt set up's

 
By jan w (jwag) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
7751 3-Groove Crank Pulley 7

I dont know that you need 3 pulleys on the water pump either. Use the extra groove on the crank to turn just the two alternators and use the water pump to turn the other belt

??

 
By Bocephus (bocephus) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:33 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
60-70's cadillac should work fine.
 
By Psyclone (cyclonecj) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
March lists 3 different three groove crank pulleys, p/n 1631, 1691, 1651. Dunno about the water pump pulley, that may be tough to find.
 
By matt Winans (liquidmx) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant what about a two groove and an offset 1 groove with longer bolts? Same principle for the water pump.

 
By Jason (jv210) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant there is a place in mountain view called ellsworth machine, 650-968-7884. they do a lot of race stuff. I just takled to them and they said they should be able to make something for you or have it done somewhere. just bring in the alternator and pullies. Just to let you know they are not cheap, but there stuff is quality. they work with a lot of top notch race teams.

(Message edited by jv210 on April 11, 2006)

 
By Paul (paublo) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 1:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
One other option is to check with Marine Power. They have been furnishing engines to Tige for a couple of years and all of their engines have double belts. Supposedly they have been furnishing engines for commercial users for years and they did a number of things different- 2 belts, starter mounted near the top of the bell housing and dual oil filters. For Tige they deleted the extra oil filter. But on a standard 5.7 L block, the pulleys might match up. It's worth a try.
 
By Bruce Banner (breadbutta) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 1:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ideally you could convert to the newer serpentine setup.
 
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 8:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yes A serpentine belt system would be a nice up grade. However I dont feel like making all the peices that would need to be custome made to make this happen. I was looking threw some pic's of serpentine systems that few companys make conversion kits for cars but no boat conversion's. Most serpentine systems seem to take up more room than the traditional V belt with the spacing of the equipment. I have no more extra room. And add into the mix the belt tentioner that would have to be custom made, you can see the can of worm's spilling out. Im no machinest but it dosent seem like brain science to have a pully made. Ill get ahold of Jasons contact if nothing comes threw Thanks Jason. I contacted Alma Gates via e-mail there SPL systems have more alternators than you would even need Pic' Upload
They have a HO alternator guy Ill wait to se what he say's. Dam counter jockey's you go into a parts store or contact someone online and as soon as you say its for a boat they are like " Ooooo contact the marina they will have one", If they cant find a part # it dosent exist???? I guess its all who you talk to. Ill keep looking If I gave up this easy I would never have anything custom.

 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Don't forget some things go backwards when you run serp belts... I checked today and PCM did not make Fords with serp belts.

I am almost positive that I have seen a 351 in a service truck or maybe a limo running 3 belts? Another source might be a limo or bus supplier?

http://www.penntexusa.com/oem.htm

Another suggestion would be to call Subway truck parts in Sacramento, ask for Brad and tell him that you are a friend of mine (he'll probably charge you double... LOL). They have lots of big truck parts.

 
By Luke (lukeduke95) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 12:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey Grant,

Measure the distance between the dampner face and the first groove on your damper.

On some mustangs I used to have I had some with 3 groove cranks. I know they make them for the 351.

This website has some pulleys for older mustangs, if you scroll there are a bunch depending on that distance I talked about.

http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Engine/under-drive_pulleys.htm

I will go by my parents tomorrow, I am pretty sure I have a box of pulleys left over lying around there somewhere. Unless they got tossed when I did some cleanup, I should still have the 3 groove one somewhere. I'll get back to you. It would at least give you an idea of where to start.

 
By Jay (jayc) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 5:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
You could replace your belt driven water pump with a crank driven one like indmar use on some mastercrafts.

It would then allow you to place your second alternator where you water pump is now and allow you to use the existing 2 belt pully.

 
By Craig Strait (yosquire) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
yes the "You can't use that part on a boat, you need the 'marine' part!"

me: "uhh.... It's a hose clamp.?.."

parts guy: "yep...You need a marine clamp"
(translation, it costs 115% more for the same part)

Hey Grant,

Vintage air sells a short depth Serpentine belt retro-fit system.

http://www.vintageair.com/catalog.asp#fr
pages 50, 51 and 52.


 
By fred (nautique_04_226) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 8:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Not sure but you might check into mid 70s engines they had to run alternator, air conditioner and smog pump.
 
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 9:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The water pump is the one thats giving me the problem's March makes the crank pully I just need a water pump pully.

BTW the Vintage Air kit is $2200 and comes with everything. But none of it will work.


 
By Bob (bob) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 9:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
My merc (which coincidentaly started out as a gm block also) has full serpentine setup. How hard would it be to find some bad or even new merc pulleys? I did have to modify my alternator bracket for my 95 amp alt upgrade but the pulley went right on. Im curious though if a single serp belt would be enough for that much juice? How much H.P. would a 200 amp alternator be trying to extract from that belt?
 
By Craig Strait (yosquire) on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:21 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yikes! $2200... That's a lot
 
By trace (trace) on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 8:20 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
what about just buying a second WP pulley with a single groove and bolting it down sandwiched on top of the orginal?

 
By adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bob , I've heard a good rule of thumb is every 25 amps= 1 horsepower.
 
By Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis) on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant:

You don't need to run three belts!

Get a two grove pulley on the alternator. Adjust the offset (I know, easier said than done) so that the two alternator groves align with the two groves in the main crank pulley.

You will have one belt that drives the water circulating pump and alternator. That belt will be tightened by adjusting the alternator, and must be tightened first.

The second belt drives the circulating pump, raw water pump and alternator. That belt is adjusted by the raw water pump once the altnerator is locked down.


 
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Rod thats a great Idea, BUT the alternator cant move back any more. Its already up againts the valve cover.

What if or can I space out or move forward the crank and raw water pump so that the alternator's sencond pully would align with my crank and raw water and water pump.

Would it be bad to make spacers for these pump's
that way I would only nee to turn spacers not pully's

 
By trace (trace) on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i like that thinking too, but i'm not sure you would get enough wrap on the crank pulley with the outer belt to drive anything. looks like it would only hit about 60 of the crank pulley.
 
By Shawn (superair) on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I know almas truck when it was kicker was running motorcycle chain to run all the alternators. That way they did not slip. She also had a 400 hp engine to run them. talk about some amps.

later

 
By trace (trace) on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 7:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
how much room do you have before you hit the motor cover?

if you're open to totally changing the design, i recommend a synchronous drive (flat cogged belt). you get the power of a chain without all the noise & maintenance.

check out http://www.martinsprocket.com/2001/SecK.swf

you'll have to order thru a dealer (any industrial supply). you can order blank pulleys for custom machining, or with pretty much any custom shaft size.

 
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Im gonna have someone custom machine a 3 groove water and crank pully
 
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
picUpload
 
By Blair (twitch) on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 9:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
grant the problem i see with adding spacers is making sure you still have enough shaft left after you add the spacers
 
By Bocephus (bocephus) on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Did you ever check out the caddy pulleys?
 
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