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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through April 21, 2006 » Wet Sounds vs NVS vs Un known Challenger « Previous Next »
By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yesterday Mike was kind enough to haul his SV 211 down to the shop where we could use his boat as a test mule. We tested 4 pairs of speakers
#1 NVS tyrants
#2 Wet Sounds Pro 80s
#3 Wet Sounds Pro 485s
#4 Mike's home built HCLD cans (code name the underdog 007's) LOL
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We did most of the testing at 80 feet back but we also took some reading's in and around the boat.Upload
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By Sound_Illusions (grant_west) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Upload
 
By Jon (jon4pres) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:39 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Who won???
 
By Scott Taylor (taylormade) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
interesting... do you find that it's an accurate test on dry land vs the water, though? I suppose that if it's louder on land, it stands to reason that it'd be louder on the water, but what about sound clarity between the two terrains?
 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Awesome! I'm sure you will give us the specs on the amp used and wattage. How about both the subjective and objective impressions?
 
By Clayton Bygdnes (sound_illusions) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
These results on the DB meter are readins from the 3 different speakers, NVS Tyrants, Wetsounds Pro 485, and Wetsounds Pro 80s. Which readings do you guess goes with each speaker?
 
By KG (iagainsti) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:01 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
104.1 DB reading probably NVS. So dont keep us in suspense !!! Which system "sounds" best ?
 
By Craig Strait (yosquire) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The 104.1 has to be the Wetsound box with the HLCD.
 
By CAR (super_air) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:03 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I say 485's, NVS and then the pro 80's
 
By Jon (jon4pres) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am thinking 485's did the best. How did the homemade ones do?
 
By Craig Strait (yosquire) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
This is simply not fair! I've hit refresh about 40 times.
 
By C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:14 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Why didn't you compare the 1010s? Isn't that a more fair comparison to the Wetsounds/NVS knockoff?

That horn generates a lot of volume. I say the 1010 would be louder than a Tyrant. Maybe more ear-piercing, but louder.

 
By KG (iagainsti) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mee thinkee The Illusions Boyz are gonna keep us on the edge of our seats
 
By KG (iagainsti) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
While we wait I have a question. When speaker manufactures rate their speaker DB levels, how far away from the speaker do they measure ? Say a Polk speaker rated @ 90db ? Is there a industry standard ?
 
By Craig Strait (yosquire) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Generally SPL is rated by the manufactures at 1 meter while applying 1 watt of power.

(Message edited by yosquire on April 05, 2006)

 
By C.I.E.....Evan (guido) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I bet they all sounded like poo....Really, really, loud poo.
 
By richard estevo (mendo247) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:00 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Evan.. lmao!!
 
By adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm with CAR, but I think the Pro 80's may edge out the tyrant. (only 7 tenths of a DB) and I bet the two horns on the 80's will produce more volume than the tyrant. But what about sound....whose sounded better @ 80 feet?
 
By KG (iagainsti) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
and which sounded better in the boat....?
 
By jon bassham (texasbear08) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am on the edge of my seat like a little kid... the challenge of the century is here!
 
By adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thought this was interesting.

"10 dB change either way will be perceived as twice as loud or half as loud. A 20 dB increase would be four times as loud. When two sounds are played in a laboratory setting and one is lowered until it is 10 dB below the other, that would be the point when someone would say the sound is about half as loud."

So you might assume a +/- 5db is 50% louder?

(Message edited by acurtis_ttu on April 05, 2006)

 
By Bryan (trakkerguy) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Perhaps they are waiting for the sufficient amount of $$ to hit their account from certain speaker manufacturers...Let the bidding begin...
 
By E.J. (deuce) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 11:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
(Just posting so I can get e-mail results)
 
By Randy (dudeman) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 11:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Too bad you couldn't hold off for a week or so and throw the Skylon Rubicon 350's into the mix.
 
By depoint50ae (depoint50ae) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Was it at least a windy day so that you could simulate the effect of wind noise in your ears? What about the sound of the motor while underway?

I demand a recount? (Now I sound like a Dem)

 
By dj (dizzyj) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
all I know is that I rode with my tyrants for the first time on sunday. They sound fantastic. Great in the boat and overpowering behind it. heads were turning on sunday, oh yes they were :-)
 
By Matt Poirot (chopper515) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Did you have the engine running and the engine reved (14.4 volts)?
 
By Kyle Cramm (00wakesetter) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Is this going to be like the 1080 thread? Lets wait a week to tell them because we know but dont want to tell anyone.
 
By richard estevo (mendo247) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I bet mikeski's blew em all away!!
 
By Wkerat (wkerat) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 5:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I would think the 485 would be louder than the 80's based on how wetsounds says they tune everything. Does the tyrant have a horn in each like the addictions?
 
By Tim White (wetsounds1) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 7:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Great Job guys, very cool tests. Did ya'll also test the 485 and Tyrant in a pair or did you test those as just singles?

Adam, great info.

Here is some more info that I would like to add hoping to clarify DB's a little as it is a very confusing topic when comparing what is referred to as sound power and perceived loudness. A 3 dB increase in the level of continuous noise doubles the sound power, however experimentation has determined that the response of the human ear results in a perceived doubling of loudness for approximately every 10 dB increase. For instance when talking about amplifiers or with measuring equipment. A 3db increase represents twice as much power. Now for the way a human ear hears and the perception of loudness. A 10 db increase is perceived as twice as loud.

Hope that helps!

 
By Joe (joe_788) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 7:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'd be more interested in a test performed on a day with 24mph winds.


 
By Wkerat (wkerat) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 8:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The test should still be accutate, because with sound waves the one that is loudest should still be loudest at speed, and the most accurate sound wise should still be the most accurate. Yes, the db ratings will most likely drop, but they would all drop at an equal amount. It would be interesting to see the comparison to a set of fusion speakers or something like that though

 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey, I thought we agreed not to post anything on wakeworld??? just kidding, I guess Grant loves a suspense movie? It was a lot of fun getting out on the boat even if it was on the trailer at the end of a gravel road in the middle of nowhere overlooking the bay. This was also a great opportunity for me to test and tune my system with a couple of the boat stereo industry's best listening so I jumped at the opportunity to be the test mule. We played some tunes, experimented with some great tower speakers and took a few readings, a pretty good afternoon all and all. I say experiment because this was far from a scientific test.

Throughout the afternoon I developed an opinion for each speaker but I don't feel inclined to share my personal opinion on this board, because it's just that MY PERSONAL OPINION. What I will say is that I had an expectation of what my opinion would be before we started the test but things changed after listening to everything. Each speaker had it's strong points and weak points as perceived by my ears. Some were brighter, some were smoother, some had a wider dispersion pattern, there were many differences.

All tests were performed with the motor off, the voltage meter averaged 12.3 volts throughout the tests with a couple dips down to 11.9 or 12V when I had everything including the sub turned up. For the comparisons the interior and subs were turned all the way down.

I won't get into the specifics for our perceived results, it's just too subjective. I do have have an opinion which speakers sound best to me, but I don't feel comfortable sharing until I hear them from a riding position.

 
By KG (wakescene) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
What about the swim platform levels? Just curious if you did this reading as well? I was in the 110-112db range on the platform depening on the recording with the motor running about 2 years ago. I was running then what I run now, 6x6.5 speakers, 40watts to each speaker!
 
By Tim White (wetsounds1) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 9:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
KG,

As a simple rule of thumb. Loudness decreases by 6 db (half as loud) every time the starting point is doubled. So if you start 3 feet away for a reading and move back 6 feet, you will in theory lower the sound - 6 db. As with all theories, real world applications may differ. So if you were 10 feet away as a starting point on the deck at 110 db. At 80 feet back, you would be around 92 db.

 
By chris pedersen (mobiletinting1) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
wetsounds is the shizzzzzalUpload
 
By C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Chris,

You remind me of B-Rad from "Malibu's Most Wanted"

 
By chris pedersen (mobiletinting1) on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks j rod just my way of saying hi.
 
By leo lasecki (malibuboarder75) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 1:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
My guess is Tyrants, 80s (bc of the two HLCD), and then the 485s. I hope I am wrong because I am getting the 80s and it would be nice to know they are loud as hell.
 
By Daniel Perry (poser007) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 5:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok come on man just spill it....I loved Malibus most wanted.....B RAD
 
By Festivus Maxximus (festivus) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 7:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
great idea...I am leaning towards the Tyrants, when can we expect some results...????
 
By Giddy Up (mike_t) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 7:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm guessing after the spring ride...maybe some on the water testing???
 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 9:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here is my logic. Tyrant are the loudest, because they face straight back withouit a curve in the design like the 485, plus they are (4)10's, come on people!!! Second the 485's because they have horns and they got to be louder than the 80's.

Regardless of who is louder, all I know is I have the Tyrants and they kick some major butt. Plus they are Stainless steel cans that are like 4 big fat missles on my tower ready to do some damage.

The others just look like every other fiberglass speaker set up, but with a horn speaker in the middle, not to impressive looking to me. I want tower speakers that sound awsome and at the same time look pissed off and not shaped like funky triangle with fragile looking mounting brackets. I'm not saying they are Broke Back Mountain looking, but I would't put them on my boat nor would I tell all my guy friends that I saw that movie.


By they way I haven't.
Brannon

 
By Psyclone (cyclonecj) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 9:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That was a stupid post. You are a stupid man.
 
By Dale (wetsoundspro) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 9:53 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Brannon,

So that you know, these housings are not fiberglass housings, rather, Injection Molding.

Why is it that you are so sensitive about this comparison?

It's good to see that you are happy with your purchase, but do you feel that it's important to impress your opinion on everyone else by trashing "the other brand" without having all the facts?

Have you heard the Wet Sounds speakers?

As for the bracket comment, I think you are assuming that is the complete bracket. What they aren't showing is the clamp that the U-Bracket slides onto. I think if you saw that you would have a different opinion about that.

Dale

(Message edited by wetsoundspro on April 06, 2006)

 
By Clayton Bygdnes (sound_illusions) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok People here it is...set of Pro 80s-104.1 DB, Single Pro 485-100.2 DB, and the Tyrants 99.5 DB.

Like Mikeski said we are not scientist in a labratory doing super modified tests on these. These are very rough numbers, and we did listen to different kinds of music to get a better feel for what did what.

We did this test for our personal reference, and had a pair of Tyrants sitting at the shop. The first and only time I heard the Tyrants was at the Pleasenton Boat show where NVS was set up inside, and we couldnt get a real feel for them. Ya they sounded loud, but you could stand in front of a pair of 6.5s and they would sound loud. Our test was done outside with about 20 mph winds blowing over us, and at 80 feet out. We got a better feel for what everything sounded like and found that all the speakers were really loud. Because the Tyrant had the least db rating, does that mean that we couldnt hear them as well...no, we could hear them, they were extremely loud, but we Made our own personal opinions on which speaker in "our" minds sounded good to us.

I am not trying to step on any bodies toes, I just wanted to hear what the Wetsounds sounded like, and I had their #1 competitors speaker on hand. Who wouldnt take them out together and try them side by side.

J-Rod: I think a better competitor for the Wetsound Pro 485 would be the NVS Entity 808. They both have two 8" drivers and a horn.

I will be bringing a set of the Pro 80s up to the Springride tomorrow for anyone who wants to check them out.

 
By TeamNeptunes (chas) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Clay,
Why do you always have to start problems?????



See you up at the lake, you got to come by and have a beer or two or three.....

 
By Clayton Bygdnes (sound_illusions) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I know I just start all the problems, dont I!! All this hatin' over a damn tower speaker!

Im gonna steel all your beer Charles, whatch out!

 
By Attila (attila916) on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 11:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
No kidding Clay... I guess people got tired arguing about which boat is best!
 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 6:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dale, Lighten up. Sorry I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings. 485's are very nice and I am sure they look real nice and sound even better than nice. I am sure that nice people want to buy them and nice people made them. There, have a nice day.
Brannon

 
By Jon (jon4pres) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 6:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What about the homemade speakers?
 
By adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 6:39 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Clay, what amp were you using for the testing? I'm assuming you ran the same amount of power to each "competitor"?
 
By leo lasecki (malibuboarder75) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 7:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
So wetsounds 8" midbass and HLCD Pro80s beat out NVS 10" and HLCD Tyrants. Wow, that is great engineering. Good job Wetsounds.
 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 8:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I need to clarify something.

Pair of Pro-80s driven by 2 x 400w
Pair of my speakers driven 2 x 400w
Single Pro-485 driven by 1 x 400w
Single Tyrant driven by 1 x 400w

It was not apples to apples from a power standpoint between the pairs and singles. My homebrew speakers had the lowest measured output of the pairs (this was a surprise to me). Obviously doubling the power has a significant impact on the SPL readings.

All the systems were tested for "maximum clean listening level", the minimum clean level for the given music segment was determined to be 22 on my volume indicator. All measurements were taken with the same 30 second music segment with the volume set at 22. The SPL meter was set to capture the fast response max.

The amp is another discussion in itself I don't want to talk about it until I get more time to prove it's worth.

We did out best to keep things as equal as possible but there is still a large opportunity for human error in our testing techniques. We only took two samples of each speaker setup, a real test should consist of at least 10 samples with two to three examples of each speaker. We do not have the resources or time to do anything this elaborate.

So to answer the question "what's the best tower speaker"... It's the one within your budget that meets your requirements. If you already have NVS and you are happy then it's NVS. If you already have Wet Sounds and you are happy then it's Wet Sounds. If it's homebrew and you are happy then it's homebrew! Once you get to this level your rider will be enjoying clear music a few db one way or another will not make a huge difference. We just took a few readings to confirm what we thought we were hearing. My motto is "listen then buy".

 
By adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 8:39 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
4 pro 80's
Upload
Upload

 
By Lucky275 (lcky275) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 11:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
So the ratings on these speakers:
485s: RMS 250
Tyrants: RMS 500
80s: RMS 175

Would anyone agree that the tyrants were underpowered in this test? How much would that effect the readings that were posted?

 
By Dale (wetsoundspro) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 11:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Well Lucky, if we are to assume that all specs are accurate, in terms of (RMS), then is it suggested that that max power handling is 1000 watts on the Tyrants? Typically, RMS is half of the max rated power.

However, NVS rates the 808's at "RMS" of 400 watts on their site, but in the owner's manual it rates them at 500 peak.

Regardless, I think we can all depict different issues about this test. As an example, the Tyrants are 10" drivers vs. the 8" inch drivers in the PRO485.

Basically, there is no perfect answer, which is why I agree with Mikeski. It's not a perect test and there is probably no clear winner. It has to be determined based on your ear and what you see in value.




 
By Tim White (wetsounds1) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 12:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you are testing different speakers against each other using the exact same amplifier power and one out performs the other on spl. It outperforms it. Now it may be more efficient than the others. Hence the different RMS ratings. I realize that is not the case here as we have singles and doubles etc. However I am very happy with the results!

I also agree that there is no perfect test when different speakers have different RMS ratings and size drivers etc.

You would have to use all the same brand of amplifiers and test the output to make sure you are putting the exact required RMS power into each speaker. So each speaker would be getting its right RMS power. And then like Mikeski said, multiple tests.

But like Dale said, there is no perfect answer. What would you find out. For instance what if speaker X is 2 DB louder then speaker Y but X had 2 times as much power going to it. So did it win? Twice the amp power and amp costs $$$ amount more. What if spk x had 3 db more than y but all unbiased testers agreed that y sounded better. Who won? What if x was louder than y with less power and also sounded better and was less money. I guess you would have a winner, right?

Then you have the subjective side of Sound Quality and what you personally like. IMHO, I personally think that our Wet Sounds speakers are the best sounding and performing speakers on the market. But hey, I designed them. So I guess you could say I am pretty biased!!

Tests like these are great because they give unbiased opinions and facts on what performs. What this test proves is that there is some great options on the market when you are looking for high performance.

You have to break it down based on your personal preference. In terms of output, sound quality, look, weight, driver types, extra features, and value for your dollar.

The key is try to see in person and listen to what you are interested in buying. Compare.

I applaud Clay, Grant and Mike for taking the time to do these tests. I find it very cool that there are people out there as passionate about this industry as we are.

Tim-Wet Sounds

 
By Tom (wakeprodigy) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 2:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I've looked at the wetsounds website, and nvs but can't find any information on the weight of each product. Does anybody know this information? If so could you post up.

Thanks,
Tom

 
By adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 2:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I don't remember the exact number on the 1010 but it was in the low-mid 40's range on my scale. I think officially is was in the high 30's? But there is a very noticable difference from holding the 1010 vs the pro 485. I believe the hanging weight of the pro 80 is around 13lbs (the wetsounds enclosure is some high tech composite that weighs next to nothing, this is obviously where the weight reduction occurs). I've been meaning to put it on the scale. But in practical terms my g/f would much rather carry a pair of Pro 80's down to the dock than the 1010

(Message edited by acurtis_ttu on April 07, 2006)

(Message edited by acurtis_ttu on April 07, 2006)

 
By Tim White (wetsounds1) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 2:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tom,

We are going to add the weight numbers to the site soon. Total weight with speakers and clamps for the PRO 80 is 16 pounds each. For the PRO 485 is 36 pounds each. Hanging weight of just the speakers, no clamps is 13 pounds for the PRO 80 and 30 pounds for the 485.

 
By matt Winans (liquidmx) on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 5:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am left still wanting a closer comparison, say something like overpowering all speakers and pushing them to their limits, not the amps.

With that said...

I agree that the whole speaker size is an issue, but there are a lot of variances at play here aside from size. I think outside of hearing them personally, it would be hard to judge a bench test regardless. I also think that it would be quite foolish to purchase(or claim) that any one speaker is better than the other speaker based solely on a DB test such as this.

But I do appreciate the comparisons and the amount of trouble you guys went through to get this information and provide it in a non-threatening manner, very good job.

(Message edited by liquidmx on April 07, 2006)

 
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