|I have a rubicon 450 and a set of 350's on order for my boat, but was told today they will not be in for at least another month. I have heard great things about NVS, but was wondering if anyone had experience with wetsounds and fishnoyz as they seem to be similar to nvs, but I like the looks a little better based on pictures. Any other thoughts would be great. |
|I also have an order for a pair of Rubicon 450's and checked on my order through a reliable source and the speakers are all supposed to be in on the 20th (420 odd date huh)and shipped then. They supposedly have ample amounts to ship.|
|Jason Craveiro from Wakeside.com flew down to Southern Cal today to do a full test of the Rubicon 350 and 450. He will push them to the limit, get all of the specs, and lots of images. |
Skylon claims there is no comparison to last years Deafcon. They are incredibly loud at 80 feet and the sound quality is great at the boat. If that is true, then they totally hit the mark.
|I guess I have heard/seen a little too much hype for Skylon's previous tower options. |
"Skylon claims there is no comparison" What does that mean? Does that mean the last year's Deafcons were poor performers? Are they going to replace my buddies Deafcon 5s with the new product?
Skylon seems to have trouble delivering a good reliable product that meets thier claims. Hopefully we will see a little less marketing and a little more engineering this time around.
"they are incredibly lout at 80 feet and the sound quality is great in the boat" Haven't we seen that line before? I don't want to see images on the internet, I want to hear the music on the water at 80 feet out.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Skylon and I am not trying to bash them, but I am already reading hype and they are not even out! I just get tired of reading hype. I would not order anything until I saw and heard it behind a boat like mine at 80' out.
Don't be fooled by looks folks.
You need to consider history for my statement to make sense. Wakeside has carried Skylon tower speaker systems since 2002. Every year their products have dramatically improved over the previous year model.
In 2002 they were big rectangular black plastic Kickers with tower mounts added.
In 2003 they were aluminum can's with kicker car speakers.
In 2004 they did they did their Deafcon line with 8 inch Kicker sub-woofer, a 6.5 inch mid-bass, and a tweeter.
In 2005 they introduced Pro-Audio components in their Deafcon Reference lineup.
In 2006 they hired a pro-audio engineer, a professional project manager, and improved the quality of the components again. They also improved their mounts, enclosures, etc.
Skylon has always met their claims. They are just delivering more value for the money each year. Isn't that what we expect from our car, boat, motorcycle, stereo, computer, and electronic gadgets manufacturers each and every year? The world is moving very fast.
Last year, Skylon emphasized sound quality as their #1 priority. I believe they delivered. I have a pair of Deafcon Reference V's on my boat. They also attempted to dramatically increase the SLP at 80' to make it loud for the rider. They decided to compromise by using 1 1/2 inch voice coils to got more low end between 80 hz and 200 hz. By doing so they lost some SPL compared to NVS but gained sound quality.
That is why Wakeside added the NVS line. For those wanting SPL over sound quality, we recommend NVS. Those wanting sound quality over SPL but wanting pro audio and decent high end volume, we recommended Skylon Deafcon Reference IV or V.
This year we need to listen to the new NVS, Skylon Rubicon 350 and 450 and the new XTP Project 912's before we can recommend product to our customers. I know all three will be amazing, but we don't yet understand the differences.
Sorry if my excitement over the new Skylon and XTP products sounded like hype. I get really excited about pro audio and product innovation. I agree with you that looks and spec sheets are not the way to buy product. You need to hear them and push them to the max (on the water) to know what they can really do.
Let's wait a few weeks and then we will know. Jason will come back from Skylon with first hand testing on Wednesday. He will be very accurate with his assessment. No hype from Jason.
|Mike(wakeside Mike), do you know if the new Rubicon parts (not the speakers) are made in China? |
|I know that they are designed and engineered along with all R&D in California. I don't know where all of the components and enclosures are made but most of this stuff is made in Asia these days. That is true with most brands that I know of. |
I just heard that the brake disks on Mercedes and BMWs are made in China now. Of course we know where much of the wakeboard gear is made as well.
It is getting harder to find true "made in USA" these days since components usually come from where the most efficient factories are.
|so i guess the answer is no. |
|I just stepped off the plane, so this will be a brief summary, with my full review coming some time tomorrow. |
First of all, let me make a couple of statements to preface the following thoughts. I've been very careful about what Wakeside has said with respect to the performance of the new Rubicon line (both here and on our website) because I wanted to have first hand experience with the product before I made any judgements. Skylon had some huge hurdles to clear this year after the delays in shipping product last year, as well as some of the unintentional short comings of that product. But this is about the new product, so let's get to it.
The first thing I can honestly say after running the speakers hard today is that I hope each and every boat audio enthusiast gets a chance to hear these speakers. From the Rubicon 100 on up, I think everyone will be pleased with the clarity, accuracy and output of each model (given it's respective purpose in the line). Skylon has put in the time and energy to design a product with the quality and features boat owners are looking for (hence the slight delay in the release of the product, which was not in any way related to supply problems). Having complete control of every component, application and process from within the company has resulted in a product that has the quality needed to withstand the rigors of the marine application, and it also sounds fantastic. Skylon also took great care to address any short-comings in the Deafcon product, as well as any other foreseeable issues, just as you would expect of any quality manufacturer introducing a new product (Apple, GM, Cisco, etc.).
Additionally, a lot of engineering went into the design of the cross-over network to protect both the speaker components, and/or the amplifier in the event of any malfunction. The nominal impedance has been raised to safer levels for the Rubicon's, and the characteristics of that impedance graph, as well as the nature of the cross-over network has been designed to relieve the burden on the amplifier and present better audio qualities. The end result is a safer, more consistent speaker, that will perform in any application. If a DIY installs these himself and doesn't know anything about tuning a system, it doesn't matter, even running full range, they sound good and they're not going to fail. If a purist sends 600W of correctly tuned power to them, they're going to scream, and they won't meltdown, even if one of the components fails.
So what does that mean in terms of output? From a SQ perspective, the 350 and 450 sound phenomenal for horn based systems. There's no way they'll ever challenge a soft dome tweeter, for transparency, but then again, for how we use them behind the boat I don't really think that matters. What it comes down to is that compared to the other horn based systems on the market, these are incredibly smooth and very easy on your ears, even standing a few feet away (at swim platform distances).
Finally, in terms of sheer output, they are incredible. Next to a set of properly functioning Deafcon V's there just no comparison; they're louder, more accurate, have better imaging, and are more consistent throughout the coverage sphere, so even when you're out to the side of the boat approaching the wake there is still plenty of output.
It's hard to say how they would stack up against something like a pair of 1010's without quantitative numbers, but the difference is small enough that you're going to have to measure it. Given the huge increase in SQ up close to the boat (and at 80'), I would gladly give up such a small decrease in output, if there even is one. Bottom line, these are the most versatile, loud, accurate tower speakers I've ever heard, and given what I have experience with in the marketplace, I feel comfortable saying they're the "best" out there right now. At the end of the day though, that doesn't mean anything, because it's just my opinion. That's why my comment above about every enthusiast taking them for a listen is important, you need to put them through the paces yourself. If you're in the NW, let me know and we'll schedule a demo, otherwise I hope you have an accommodating dealer, because I really just want as many people as possible to listen to them and draw their own conclusions.
As to the origins of the components, they are sourced from around the world, from the best suppliers for the application. The tweeters come from England, the glass reinforced circuit boards are from Europe, etc. Sure some of the components come from the Orient, but unfortunately that's the global world that we live in today, and if that's where a reliable supplier that can regularly deliver a quality product is located, then so be it. At the end of the day, all the engineering, design and assembly is performed in the USA, just like the other tower speaker manufacturers out there. This issue has been blown out of proportion IMHO, and a lot of false claims seem to have been made, which is too bad.
From an enthusiast standpoint, I was quite impressed with both the sound quality, and the quality of the design and components, and after experiencing them first hand, I think they'll make anyone happy. If you already have an order in for them, you may have been waiting for a while, but we're in the home stretch, and bailing now would really be a mistake in my mind. We will have product in two weeks, which should be plenty of time for most people before the whether really starts to warm up.
So this ended up being a little longer than I had planned, but hopefully it offers some more tangible information than the marketing hype that has surrounding this new product line. I'll digest my test some more and post more concise thoughts tomorrow. In the meantime, if anyone has any other specific questions, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.
|Great, I can't wait to hear them side by side with all the other great systems at the Spring Ride (www.boatbeats.com). |
They will be there to represent right?
|If anyone wants to buy them "big rectangular black plastic Kickers with tower mounts added" we got them for $295/pair |
|Those things rip for a pair of cheap tower speakers. They have horns. |