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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through April 21, 2006 » Help. New Boat A b-tch to Start... « Previous Next »
By Elane (ebone66) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:20 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Put my new Moomba in the water for the 2nd time yesterday. 1st time was last weekend. I have the 5.7, 310(carb) engine. It's a bitch to start. Yesterday I had to choke it hard and let it run for like 3-4 minutes before I could drop it into neutral w/o it dying. I stopped up the public boat ramp for about 10 minutes as I floated around like a jack-ss in my brand new boat while about 10 guys on the other side of the ramp fired up their 20 year old bass boats and left me in their smoke. I stopped for a beer and turned it off for an hour after running it for 2 hours and it was still hard to start up. Any thoughts?
 
By NAW (ripr) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
That's really odd. Every new one I've been in with the carb ran great.

Was it unusually cold outside? Are you in a high elevation?

Either way, I'd get it to your dealer asap, or have him come out with you to experience the problem first hand.

 
By Elane (ebone66) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
In Houston. Altitude 0. Air temp, 73 degrees.
 
By Robb Davis (boarder_x) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 9:26 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Wow!! I have a carb. It takes a few seconds to start, when cold, but then starts as the key turns for the rest of the day. No matter how long it sits. When camping, it even fires right up the next day. It usually only takes a few seconds/ requiring choking if it has sat for a week or longer. Also mine does start funny. When I need to choke it, it won't actually start. It fires, and turns over, but doesn't start. I then put the throttle back in neutral, and try it again. It then starts great, instantly is ready to run, and runs great the rest of the day.

I'd take it in.

 
By Edward J. Sullivan (bigshow) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Fuel injection is the only way to go. My old boat was a pain to start.
 
By Elane (ebone66) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:44 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
thanks bigshow. maybe you can forward me the $2000 cash for the upgrade.
 
By Marty McFly (mcfly) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Elane, it is nothing more than a simple idle adjustment on the Carb. Call your dealer and ask if you can swing it back by the shop to have them adjust the idle on it. After that, there will be nothing to it! Those guys will take good care of you.

McFly

 
By Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:59 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
My experience is that fuel injection is almost always "turn the key and it starts" and carburetors need at least a little fiddling under some circumstances.

Your case is way beyond a little fiddling, however. There is something wrong. If this is a new boat I would definately have it back at the dealer and make them fix it. I would expect that it would have the same hard to start & idle symtom when running off the garden hose so it shouldn't be hard for them to get it right.

One thing confuses me: You said "I had to choke it hard". Can you explain that? It has been a long time since I have seen a manual choke on a large engine.


 
By Byrd (byrd) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Two things come to mind for me as a result of owning my 1991 MC PS190 which was carbed. During the 7+ yeaser of ownership the only times it was hard to start was a result of the float bowl sticking and timing was way off. Other than the carb being out of adjustment, which someone else already mentioned. One thing more to check is the water separater, but the filter should not let the water pass. To see if the float is stuck, after it shuts itself off look down the barrels of the carb and see if gas is still flowing into the engine after it cuts out. If your timing is off you need a timing gun to adjust. I have no experience with your setup, so these are just a few things to check if you like. Your best bet is to take it back to the the dealer you bought it from and have them look at it if it is under warranty. I would also insist that they put it in a lake after they fix the problem and make sure your boat is ok.
 
By Elane (ebone66) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Rod- Not sure on the terminology but by "choke it hard", i pushed in that button on the throttle that allows you to give the boat gas w/o it being in gear.

Thanks for all your feedback. I was hoping you would say "the boat need a little fine tuning" and not, "all boats w/a carb are a pain in the ass."

 
By WakeShoe (wakeshoe) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Elane,
I have a 2004 Mobius LSV with the 310 carb engine. With a carb engine, you always need to push in the button and pump the throttle two or three times. With a fuel injected engine you never pump the throttle because it will foul the spark plugs. When we first got our Mobius, it ran similar to what you describe, but not that bad. After we got thru the break in period, the engine smoothed out much better and starting (and idling) was not a problem. You may want the dealer to adjust it, but you may just find out you need to get the engine thru the 10 hour breakin period.

 
By Shane Lafferty (pickle311) on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 4:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I've got the same problem with the same boat and I'm in Austin. My dealer said that it's a common problem because the carbs are leaned out to pass the California emissions, notice the sticker on the side of the boat. The problem is that they lock down the adjustments on the carb so you can't adjust it. My dealer said they have a fix for it and they took care of it. I haven't gotten to take the boat out since, but I'm confident that they fixed it. Talk to the service guy at your dealer and I'm sure they will know what to do. Good Luck
 
By WakeShoe (wakeshoe) on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 9:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Elane/Rod,
You are not "choking" the engine, you are "priming" the carb - similar to weedeaters where you press the fuel bulb a number of times prior to attempting to start the engine.

 
By Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis) on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post

Elane wrote:
"choke it hard", i pushed in that button on the throttle that allows you to give the boat gas w/o it being in gear.


That is standard proceedure on a carbureted boat (or any carbureted engine for that matter).

Fuel injection is a wonderful thing. Gone are the days where you had to fiddle with the car to get it started in the morning. Any one who remembers having a car built before fuel injection was standard will tell you that it was common practice to just learn what the car needed: "Pump the pedal three times, hold it 1/4 throttle to start".

On a modern fuel injected engine you can pretty much turn the key and it will start. The computer will advance the throttle enough to make it run, provide a rich mixture for easier starting, etc.

On your carbureted engine you will have to nurse it at least a little bit. It is not likely to idle when it is cold. Standard proceedure when starting cold (sitting for an hour is cold) should be:

1) push the button on the throttle lever and advance the throttle at least 1/2 way. Note: this is NOT choking the engine, it is simply advancing the throttle. It is, however, necessary to advance the throttle at least once to allow the automatic choke to enage.

2) Pull the throttle back to ~ 1/4 and try to start.

3) If it doesn't start in a few seconds stop. "Pump" the throttle (push it to full throttle and back) one or two times. This will cause the accelerater pump to squirt a small amount of gas into the intake and provide an extra rich mixture to help starting.

NOTE: Pumping the throttle on a fuel injected engine does absolutly nothing as there is no accellerator pump!

3) Return the throttle to 1/4 position and try again.


4) If it is being really stubborn try differnt throttle settings, but be prepared to yank it back towards idle when it starts because you really don't want it revving up really high until it has had a chance to build oil pressure.

5) It is possible that over pumping can cause the engine to flood. If you detect a strong smell of gas and it just isn't starting open the throttle all the way and let it sit for a few minutes before trying again.

It the choke is adjusted properly I would expect that the engine should settle down and idle within 30 seconds. Note that it may be a fast idle which can be a problem in a 5 MPH zone.

 
By WakeShoe (wakeshoe) on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Elane,
What he (Rod) said!! Damn, Rod, that was a perfect posting on carburetors. Brings back the old memories of the cars I drove before fuel injection. I have the hardest time trying to explain to my son that when you are starting the boat you need to have the throttle ready to "catch" the start (i.e., goosing the throttle to help it get going). Given your posting I am betting you know exactly what I am talking about.

 
By Elane (ebone66) on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 3:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks Ron. Nice explanation. I'll give it a shot.

The dealer told me the carb was a non-factor vs EFI unless it was cold outside. Might have spent the extra money if I knew it was gonna be such a bitch.

 
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