|Alrighty I know this has been done before but I am really stumped here. My wife and I currently own a Tige 21I and are gonna sell it and buy a new V-drive. Our budget sits right around $60K and are really stumped on these three boats. I was wondering from current owners of the three what they like, what to look for and overall performance. We have tested all three and here are my initial thoughts: |
Tige 22Ve - I like this boat a whole lot but it is really expensive when hooked up. We were quoted $63K w/ standard stuff plus PP, Ballast (a huge Tige option cost) and Stereo. I like the boats interior. It is roomy and large with great ergonomics as well as quality. The wakes were O.K. in size but had a great shape to them. To me the styling of the boat is the least desirable, but has the nicest graphics and color choices.
VLX - This boat seemed to be the largest of the three. The boat we were looking at clocks in right around $61K loaded with a Malibu speed control, power wedge, ballast and sony stereo. I really liked the interior and thought it was the best put together of the 3. The wakes were really large (larger than both the others) and well shaped. I really like the styling a lot on the boat w/ the illusion X and graphics.
Nautique - First thing with the Nautique 210Team is that I know they have a great reputation. The Team was right around $61K as well and was loaded pretty much like all teams are loaded, ballast, PP, Polk audio, etc. This boat also seemed to be really well put together, but to me seemed small inside (even when compared to my 21I. The wakes are really nice and seem to boot you pretty much straight up.
Here are my main concerns that you guys can help me out on.
1. Our lake is very shallow. It has a max depth of 28ft, but we are usually riding in 7-8 feet of water. Which boat will throw a nice wake in this type of shallow water. (all tests were done on lakes out of town)
2. I have heard of people having problems with the wedge causing transom damage on their boats, has this been fixed on the new Malibu's?
3. Which boat will have the most competative resale value? So far my initial impression is the CC 210 Team, but the new bu's have just come out.
Any impressions that you guys can help me out on would be great. I am looking to buy very soon and am anxious to make a good decision.
|Can,t speak for the other two boats I thought the Nautique was in a class all by themself. I just picked up my 22ve and it is awesome. I love the styling and I am more impressed with the fit and and finish every time I climb and sit and admire it. I had 61k out the door including a nice sound system,alarm and the extended warranty. If i remember correctly at our boat show that same Nautique was 10k more. It was actually a guy at one of the tower and stereo shops that told me before you buy check out the Tige'22ve first. He said I install on all of them and in his opinion was one of the best built. Aren't they all great boats. Seems like you couldn,t go wrong either way. The layout on the Tige' helped sell me. Yesterday we had six people in the boat sitin around chattin and it truly seemed like we were sitting in a real comfortable dining room. Good luck! |
|I've ridden in and behind all three. |
Shallow water - smaller boat - 210
Wedge - could be scary if your riding in shallow water all the time.
Best re-sale - again 210
The two larger boats will put out great wakes when properly loaded and both are awesome as far as interior room.
The 210 is very small inside and will feel cramped with more than four people, but as a pure wake boat it stands at the top of the heap along side Mastercraft's 205v hull.
So in the end you'll have to chose what you want.
Tige - Lexus
Malibu - Acura
Nautique - Porsche
|two words- MALIBU VLX}}|
|steeper wakes--in my experience--are less affected by shallower water, so i'd give the edge to the 210 there. |
however, it looks like you're already leaning towards the bu, so as long as you're not in 6 foot and under water all the time, the vlx will do fine and i doubt you'll notice a decrease in wake size. if i remember correctly, a wake needs roughly 6-8 feet to develop properly (there was an article on wakeworld that touched on this a while back i think). as far as transom concerns, a lot of people CLAIM to have seen or experienced serious transom damage caused by the wedge, but just one person--that i know of--was actually able to back up their claims with hard evidence (photos). only one major problem out of the tens of thousands wedges sold over the years is a pretty good track record. the newer hulls and wedge systems work really well together, so i wouldn't be concerned. it shouldn't really be a factor in your decision either because the vlx will make a sweet wake with or without the wedge...if you don't like it, don't need to use it.
the prices you got, especially the 210, seem a little high to me considering there's a couple '05 210's on the classifieds with under 50 hours for less than 45k
|I'm a big 'bu fan, especially the new VLX. I definately love the SAN wake but the layout of the boat leaves plenty to be desired. The VLX comes with a LOT more factory ballast and its all hidden under the floor and the new power wedge is awesome, on the fly adjustments are huge. The space of a VLX, especially with the ballast hidden away is what really sets it apart for me. For any of them you will need more ballast to kick up huge and the VLX has the space for sacs and all your gear. |
|Never mind, I sent you an email Jeff |
(Message edited by bocephus on March 20, 2006)
|For the bu running into stuff with any boat is bad, try no to. But only in rare cases did it tear a hole in the boat, most of the time the wedge breaks at some point. Also with the new hydrolic wedge, it might move if struck, and it great for surfing if you are interested in it.|
|I might be wrong, and its just opinion, but I woudlnt put Tige in with CC, and BU. Just dont seem to be in the same class. Again just opinion.|
|Bocephus, i stand corrected, but it's still not something that would worry me in purchasing a malibu. from my understanding, wedge issues were most frequent on older hulls (mid-90's and older) fitted with the older wedge design. the problem with the old wedge--as told to me by lifetime 'bu owners for what it's worth--was that, if you were to hit something and sheer the wedge, it wouldn't always release from the transom. on the newer wedge designs (starting in the late 90's), the wedge will break off at the pins in the event of excessive torque. i have no clue how the power wedge works in regards to collision damage. i haven't heard much negative from anyone about the wedge since 1998 or so (save a couple loose nuts here and there causing the wedge to tear, but that's on the owner to inspect bolt tightness), but malibu is still trying to live down their earlier incidents, as few and far between as they were|
|Buy the VE, The transom is in a league of its own, that is one boat that had to be designed by a rider, not only that but it is also a lot roomier than the other boats mentioned, and you can purchase one for allot less than you were quoted. Check out www.nelems.com give them a call they are great and want to sell boats. |
Not to mention you already have a Tige and know how well built they are. ( the only one that will replace the boat if you find a problem with the fiberglass) that is a strong warranty, just do a search on " cracks " and find all the post with other model boats that have cracks and such on $80k boats. If that happens on a Tige you get a Free boat! Ask the other dealers what they do
The nautique is the way to go.
I board in the Brazos river... about 8 ft depth... and even with stock ballast it throws a sick wake!
Nautique has a 5 year warranty, lifetime structural, 3 year motor... you cant do any better. These boats are tough as nails!
I know how confusing this can be so... Call me if you have any questions cell: 214.697.5020 or email me email@example.com.
(Message edited by texasbear08 on March 21, 2006)
|MALIBU VLX all the way!!! It is a great boat, you will love it , the wake is great, wonderful storage, fit and finish second to none IMO. Zero problems with wedge---think about it, the prop and gorilla fins stick further below the boat than the wedge. I had an '01 and now an '05 loaded with 3000lbs+ all the time and no problems!! As far as shallow water, you will get a bigger wake in 12' versus 5', however 75% of my home lake is only 4-5' deep and the wake on my VLX is half way up my hip--everyone is impressed and love it! Just my opinion--I am a Malibu fan first, second Supra, Mastercraft, Nautique.....etc. I will have fun behind any boat, enjoy time on the water with friends and thank God for all of the blessings He has given me.|
|David, you are telling Mike that he will get a new boat if he gets "spider cracks" in his gelcoat? |
"transom is in a league of its own." Well....guess that would mean something if you made boat purchases related to the transom.
Mike Sounds to me that your overall impression is that the VLX stands above the other two. It is tied for lowest price, so with that said....I am not sure what would hold you back from purchasing the VLX.
My comments on your concerns.
1. If shallow water is going to effect the wake, it is going to effect the wake of all three.
2. I have no idea, though I don't think this was a HUGE issue before. It is just something people like to bring up, sort of like the wood issue back when Tige used wood. A non-issue that people love to use when pushing other boats.
3. This is arguable, but a non-factor IMO. Boats depreciate.... If I had to say something, the CC and 'Bu are going to be easier to sell due to name recognition alone. Not saying that you will lose less money, just have more general interest.
|Here is a bit of input. I have owned a Tige 22v and now have a 210. I have also spent many hours in Malibus. The 210 has the best build of them. It is cramped with 6 people in the boat but the wake is awesome. on a shallow lake, it is most likely the best wake. I have seen a wedge torn up, seems bad for a shallow lake. Added risk. |
If you go Tige, do not do the factory ballast. Call Rival Industries and get a better setup for your boat. You will get in cheaper and have more weight. Also, look into an aftermarket stereo shop. That saved me about 1k over the Tige price.
|Take each boat out to where you will be boarding most often and test them all out. I think you already know your answer though. |
The Tige and BU wakes are more rampy which is great if you know how to ride them. However, if you ride in shallow water then they'll both be nothing more than a speed bump with no shape. Shallow water will effect the shape of the 210 but you'll still be able to get a great lip on the CC. I own a BU and I'm saying stay away from the VLX if you're riding in shallow water. They are all built really well but the CC is a step up. 5 year bumper to bumper, there's a reason the other two don't offer that.
|once again.... DEMO all|
|Just curious as to why you are not looking at any other boats. Like X1, X2, Supra 21v, 22ssv. Just curouis if there are no dealers around or don't like the wake. It is your money so it is your choose just wondering if you looked at these and rules them out or what your thinking is. |
|I pretty much have ruled out the 22ve, and now have to decide between the 210 and VLX. I really love the VLX but Bu's 400 hour warranty is a joke...I put about 200hrs a year on my boats. I also love the Nautique but don't like its limited space. |
A couple more questions for you guys:
How is the surf wake behind the 210Team?
Also, i was looking a waterski magazine's annual boat buyers guide and it listed the wakes on the VLX as pro level and the Nautique's as advanced. When I rode behind them they both seemed really nice to me. How much additional weight do you guys run in the 210's, or do you stick to the stock ballast?
Patrick, I haven't really looked at Mastercraft. I really think that MC boats are a bit overpriced for what you get. I also have not really looked into Surpa's simply do to the fact that a dealer is a good 4 hours or so from where I live.
|Mike, my dealer quoted me high 50's for a fully loaded 2006 X2? I agree with you on the X-Star, X-15, 30, 45. They can get up there in price unless you look for a used one. You're on the right track with the 210 and the VLX. Tige's looks and dash aren't for me. VLX does everything well, wake, room, comfort. Dealer is important. That's why I would go MC over Bu in my situation. How are the dealers in your area? |
(Message edited by lionel on March 21, 2006)
|waterski magazine's annual boat buyers guide and it listed the wakes on the VLX as pro level and the Nautique's as advanced. |
That is classic, I had not heard that yet....
Surf wake behind my SAN. I am under the impression that there are better surf wakes out there....maybe that is what waterski mag was talking about?
If you stick the weight on the driver's side you will get much better results. Also, you run the risk of getting water in your gas vent by surfing on that side. Nautiques prop turns the opposite direction which is why you should surf the other side.
And yes the malibu will throw a bigger surf wave. If I were the one buying the boat I would try to get all three out on the shallow lake and set them up exactly like you are going to be using them. Then you can compare them one after another with all the sales guys there. I know some sales guys don't want to do this. Tell them that this only way you will consider buying it. If they still won't come, then there is probably a reason and they shouldn't be considered.
|The report you read has to be biased some how. I don't know how they can say the bu wake is that much better than the nautique. I realize everyone has an opinion, but that is crazy. Most new wakeboats have pros riding behind them which should make them "pro level." |
Here is my 210 team with 850lbs ballast, 1500 lbs fat sacs and a few people. I guess it is only advanced. ha ha
oh yeah that guy is about 6'1" just for your frame of reference
I think most will agree that boat reviews all say the same resoundingly positive things about every boat. But, to make each article sound different, they keep the thesaurus handy. Instead of actually calling every wake "great", they use synonyms like "pro-level", "advanced", or "world-class". Don't waste your time trying to figure out which term is better than the other. Since you've already ridden behind them both, you'll be able to determine which is better for you far more effectively than a magazine can.
E.J.'s earlier post pretty much sums everything up perfectly. I wouldn't worry about any of these boats falling apart on you and, if you were to strike a stump with the wedge, chances are the damage to the prop shaft, prop, and rudder will be far more severe; the wedge will be a simple fix (and should be covered by insurance) compared to lifting the engine and shaft alignment if you were to strike bottom. Should worst come to worst and the transom were to rip out (not even sure that's possible with the new power wedge), Malibu DOES have a lifetime hull warranty, so you'll be protected.
I agree Tige makes a great boat and has a solid warranty reputation, but saying Tige will replace your boat for free no questions asked if a couple cosmetic spider-cracks suddenly appear is insulting to our intelligence.
(Message edited by JcV on March 22, 2006)
|In my Opinion. |
The VLX is the best looking and has the most room over the 210. Both wakes are awesome. The 210 is a great boat but the new towers are kind of bulky and unattractive ( imo ) . You can not go wrong with either boat. We should all be so lucky to be in your shoes having to choose between the two.
|Jeremy, that surf wake is amazing. I think that may even have the 247 surf wake photo that's been floating around beat. And great idea trying to convince Mike's dealers to bring their boats to his lake. It will be a hard sell to demo brand new boats off the lot in an unfamiliar, shallow lake, but it's worth a try. |
Obviously, I have a Malibu bias, so for the same price, I'd choose the VLX over the 210. However, I still think you can do a lot better than $61K on the Team. Maybe someone who knows more about Nautiques can correct me on my [lack of] information, but it seems like last year loaded 210's were going for $50-55k brand new(hence low-hour used '05's selling for under $45k), and the only thing changed for '06 is the tower and the subtraction of the "Super" moniker. If you can get the 210 for $5-8K less than the VLX, then I'd go that route in a heartbeat. Or do you mean $61K out the door?
|Yes Jeremy, I surf on the drivers side. Some people just can't get comfortable over there. That said, you can get a very respectable wake port side. |
Truthfully, we have never worried much about getting the perfect surf wake...it is more about just killing time and fun...so if you want to ride port...ride port.... I can drive in left or right handed circles equally well....
That is a monster surf wake....
MSRP was 71K on the boat show team here. So with a solid 15% off....would be closer to 65K OTD. Pricing is sooooooo regional and Utah tends to be on the high side.
Boat show Team 210
|Thanks E.J. |
I knew pricing was regional but DAMN! I do dig the snow camo though, and the trailer looks pretty blinged out. Hopefully, Mike can do a little better here in Texas. For the price of new ones, I have no idea how these two (especially the first one) are still on the market with (arguably) better towers.
|I think you should be able to get into a 2006 210 for around 55k pretty loaded. IMO I wouldn't worry too much about the stereo upgrades. Basically i feel like it is overpriced coming from the factory. You can get a much better system aftermarket for around the same price (especailly if you bring the installers some brew). Mike, it looks like you are in Texas, I can maybe hook you up with a dealer in Austin that won't screw you. By the way Gabe Lucas is your favorite rider? Do you know him. I went to Texas State with him. He is a ripper. Just know him through people and the wakeboard team there. |
|That trailer is amazing. 20's, LED's, chrome tubing steps and fenders.... Rarely do you notice a trailer, but this one had me talking. Best thing in, Taylor says that he is getting them for close to the same price as my trailer....so it really isn't adding to the cost. |
Correct, there are upgrades to this with lights, speakers, amps ect.... So I assume without that you could come closer to 60ish.... But not much. Again, Utah is on the high side.
I purchased my SAN for less than final quote from both Croft on the VLX and Utah Watersports on a X2. It was my second boat from Taylor's....
Here is my opinion. I consistently ride behind a VLX, Chuck H's from the post above. TONS of room, huge wake, and built second to none. This coming from a Supra owner. The lake that we ride in on average is only 4-6 feet, and his wake is mid-thigh.
How many people do you usually ride with? Ask yourself that question because the 210's don't have very much room in them as it is. Now add 5-6 people and all there crap and you have no room. Put those same people in the VLX and you have tons of room to spare.
Good luck, make sure you drive them both if you can.
|Dude the 22ve is the only thing for you. I've rode behind every type of boat known to man and the 22ve is the sickest boat i've rode behind. it has great resale value, and lot of room on the inside, great shaped wakes and look really good too. try to get them to get the price down a little. trust me you'll be very happy with your decision. |
|[quote]it has great resale value[/quote] |
How in the WORLD can you know this ? It is a new to 2006 boat.
|well clint i own a boat dealership so i know my boats very well and how well they hold up. |
|UPDATE: Just bought a 2006 210 TEAM! I went to Dallas yesterday and stopped by both the Malibu and Correct Craft dealerships. The funny thing is that after much debate it came down to one simple thing...Customer service. |
The Malibu dealer in Dallas was pretty much an ass. I towed my Tige up there and had two friends and my wife with me. While my wife and I were in the back looking at several VLX's my two friends decided to head to the pro shop to check out some new vests. While there they overheard the manager ask who's Tige was in the parking lot, and then said "we need to get that piece of crap Tige off our lot." This really offended my friend because he also owns a Tige. My friend said something to the guy, I found out and we left.
We then proceeded to Buxton Marine in Lewisville and let me tell you it was the best buying experience ever. Phil there made the process quick and easy. I picked one of their in stock boats that was loaded to the T. It had nearly every option except for a shower. It is Vapor blue and black and I will take delivery in a few days.
I can't wait to check out the wake. Oh, buy the way, most of you guys were right about the price. I financed $57K on it out the door.
Thanks for all your help.
|Congratulations. Now we need to see some pics of that boat.|
|CONGRATS MIKE!!! |
Post pics when you get a chance.
|Congrats!!! Dealer and customer service is important...|
|Great post Ryan, I would have never guessed you were a boat dealer....|
|so you're 18 yrs old, you own a dealership, and you're also the parts guy and the "machanic", huh? |
|Congrats Mike, but man, financing $57K on it??? I think I would have been shopping for a used one instead of financing that much, especially for a luxury item. To each his own. Enjoy!|
|Ditto to trace- you're full of Sheeeee t Ryan. Mhayes- sounds like a great boat. |
|$57k OTD is not bad at all for a new '06. there's no way he could have gotten either of the other 2 for that. great choice, great boat. i know opinions are varied (just as they are with the illusion), but i really dig the new 210 towers. sorry to hear about your experience at waterski america. that's the first negative thing i've ever heard about them, but a commment like that would have had me running for the door as well. that's the great thing about dallas; plenty of top-notch dealers to choose from, and it sounds like you found the boat/dealer that works best for you. have you taken delivery yet? |
ryan, can i have you autograph? you must be the most sucessful 18 year-old i've ever met......loser.
|Get in all the boats and start picking through them...under the dash, in the engine compartment, shake the windshields, look behind and under...you will find a difference. It is more than just what the wake is like when you buy a boat, I know that is important but so is fit and finish.|
|By KJ (akdoc) on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:42 pm:
I disagree with you couldn't have gotten a 22ve for 57k OTD. We were quoted a price of just at 50K for a brand new 22ve. It all depends on the dealer.
wow, that's a good price, but i assume that's not loaded (like mike was looking for), and can't include taxes and dealer prep. right?
Thanks for the comments. I won't take delivery for another 2 weeks. I live about 5 hours away in San Angelo and won't be able to get to Dallas few another few weeks. I was up there last Saturday and the boat was in shrink wrap, so they needed a day to put the tower and bimini on the boat, so I will have to go back up there. By the way, how does the Defcon III system and sub sound? I have not heard the system yet, I guess that is something I should have checked out prior to buying it, but I am sure it is not bad.
I have been pricing boats now for a bit and it seems that most places I checked, a 22ve w/ ballast, PP, tower speakers, sub, bimini, board racks, docking lights, bow filler cushion, tower mounted mirror, pull up cleats, custom cover, tandom axle trailer, etc, was running deep into the upper 50's to low 60's. My boat was about $51,500 plus about $4K for the trailer. I saved some taxes due to my trade in. I don't think I could have gotten such a deal from Tige or Malibu. Like I said, I checked each boat in depth for pricing and did not see any that were priced near the low $50's optioned the way I wanted it.
I bought an 05 210 SANTE from Buxton last summer and have done several upgrades to it... let me know if you have any questions.
As for they stock upgraded stereo... it is good.
The tower speakers are a weak link though... they almost immediatly need more power. They are only being powered by a 180 watt clarion amp. I would change that quick! The sub is a good 10... depending your musical preference. Both amps need serious attention to set the crossovers and gains correctly before it will sound good.
|Thanks Jon, |
I will look at upgrading the amps quickly. Is your boat sitting up at buxton's now. I saw the one in your profile and could have sworn I saw it while I was there. Nice boat by the way.
Yeah it was... I banged the prop on something last week so it was up there getting fixed.
|What are the water temps at Nasworthy looking like right now ? I really like the ski area they have down there.|
|For those of you who say a wedge in shallow water is scary, have you ever looked at the bottom of a boat with a wedge down? If your wedge hits, you're probably going to take off the rudder and fins and prop as well. That thing is barely below the level of the rest and if you're riding in water shallow enough that you might hit with a wedge, you probably shouldn't be riding at all.|
|Unless of course the nose of the boat is up in the air since the back is all weighted down with ballast.|
|again, have you looked at it? |
that wedge is barely behind the running gear and rudder, if it hits you either barely missed the rest or tore it all off before you even hit the wedge.
|Seriously, I am with you brooke. If you are cutting things THAT CLOSE its probably not a good idea to be riding at all, let alone a weighted boat. |
It is pretty warm. Last time we were out it was about 63 degrees. We had a cold front (I am sure it went through your area) last week and might have cooled the water off a bit. I have been riding with no suit and it hasn't been too cold.
If you come down and ride shoot me an E-mail.