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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through January 14, 2005 » To look good or not to look good. That is the ? « Previous Next »
By jeff underwood (20ftback) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 10:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Whats is the difference if you own a 05 x star or a 90 Bayliner for wakeboarding? can you WB good enough to where you would notice the difference behind the boat ? Seeing owners with these boats make me wonder if this is a power trip, I was at the boat show yesterday and saw nice ski boats for around 10k and then you have WB boats for 50k, Then I was asking myself why would I spend 50k on a boat when I will only use it 10 times a year, (also depending on the weather) and I don't even know how to WB, But If I where to learn how to WB do I need a 50k WB boat?
But Whatever, Like the old saying says-- As long as I look good in it then It shouldn't matter--

I don't want to offend anyone who owns a 50k WB boat, but can someone please tell me why they have one. or is it cause you or someone else wants to be a pro rider someday..

By Karl De Looff (boarditup) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Like many sports - the surface makes the difference. For example - you can lay out the pool table on the Wal Mart parking lot, rack the balls, and shoot pool. You can also play golf in a cow pasture. You can hold NASCAR races on dirt roads in Georgia. You can also play football in the rock-strewn deserts of the Death Valley.

The difference between you '90 Bayliner and a well designed and executed specifically built boat is just as much as my absurd examples above. Yes, you can do it. However, the sport is much more enjoyable with the right surface to use.

At 40 - I will never be a pro. However, my riding improves every year and I get to enjoy a lot of time with my kids and our friends.

Finally, once you get the bug, this question will disappear.

By Flux (flux) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
As I am in the midst of upgrading the boat into the 40k range, I will answer it like this:

Wake is much better. More convenience as the ballasts are automatic and hidden away in lockers, so more space too. Better quality product, wakeboard specific boats have hulls that produce a better wake. That being said, better wake performance for a better riding experience. We wakeboard enough and are good enough at it that this boat will make all the difference. As for pure pleasureboating, we will now have a V-Drive with tons of storage, a bimini top for shade, heaters, shower, built in coolers, amps and subs, and not to mention a generally beautiful well made boat with a great engine.

You pretty much answered your own question though. Why by a 50k boat that you will use 10x per year?? If you want a decent boat that you can wakeboard behind, set your budget, and then come back here and ask about the best wakeboard boat you can get for the money you want to spend. There are plenty of inexpensive aftermarket products that you can add to a ski boat to make it produce a great wake. We have 6 people who will use the boat 15+ weekends this year as well as a grip of friends who will come and ride with us. Our good times are all centered on around the boat. Life is short, enjoy....

PS-> I have seen folks with beautiful wakeboard boats that can't ride worth a darn, and even the boat does not make them look good. I have also seen beater boats weighted down with a tower added and the riders were tearing it up.

By fifi trixabelle (fifitrixabelle) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
b/t/w nice first post...

By Paul (psudy) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
By fifi trixabelle (fifitrixabelle) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
paul... you rock!
By Pierce Bronkite (pierce_bronkite) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 12:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Whats is the difference if you own a 05 x star or a 90 Bayliner for wakeboarding? - Way too many to list but wake and holding speed are two that come right to mind.

can you WB good enough to where you would notice the difference behind the boat ? Yes, a dramatic difference.

I was at the boat show yesterday and saw nice ski boats for around 10k Dont confuse a nice jet ski with a nice ski boat. New and nice, wb or ski specific boats for 10k dont exist.

Then I was asking myself why would I spend 50k on a boat when I will only use it 10 times a year Unless you have money to throw away, your looking at the wrong kind of boat for yourself.

I am assuming you dont wakeboard with your assumptions. Like Karl said, once you get the bug all of your questions will make sense.

(Message edited by Pierce Bronkite on January 10, 2005)

By Kevin Pothier (big_xstar) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 12:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Well I guess I have to put my opinion in on this one only because I{we} did start out in the boating world with a 1995 I/O, added a tower after we got hooked on wakeboarding, had fat sacs that we manually filled, a wake we could learn on
but really had to work at it, {poor shape and form}. After a few years we looked around, hooked
up with some people with actual wakeboard specific boats and were like. WOW. what a difference. Once your hooked and realize the difference between wakeboard specific boats and non specific it will be clear why the price difference. Also consider this. You can buy a
15,000 Hyundai, yes it gets you from point A to point B, but come on its a Hyundai. If you have the meens I am sure you would prefer the luxuries
of something nicer.Not to mention the pleasures of
Perfect Pass, Auto fill ballast , heaters, and so on. Need I say more. Its all a matter of perspective IMO. As far as the vehicle comment.
what I was trying to say is that look at a sports
car for instance. has a specific purpose and the
command a price for specfic reason. Plus the higher end vehicles usually have a lot more into them also, for a specific purpose. Handling, ride control, interior setups, wheels, tires so on and so forth. Just think of the boat market as almost
the same as the vehicle market and that will give
you a good idea of the pricing struture. Hope I made sense of all that typing..LOL

(Message edited by big x-star on January 10, 2005)

By paul (wakeme884) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 3:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff, I learned to wb behind a pontoon boat. It was a huge struggle (especially being an old dude). I upgraded to a nice i/o w/ tower etc. Its quite a bit easier and more conforatable and nicer than the toon. After riding with a couple of the big boys (andy and gid) w/ around 2500#s of ballast, Im ready for a v-drive. Im still not all that good, but the v makes it almost effortless and a lot more fun.
By Rob L (fun9c1) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 5:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Good question and I'm impressed that you're getting intelligent meaningful answers and no flames!

My 2 cents is that how deep your pockets are x how often you will use it x how bad you want one = how much you ought to spend. In my case, with my first and present boat, I figured I'd use it a couple times a week (turned out to be at least that), and for 20 years I wanted a Nautique more than I've ever wanted anything in my life, but not much to spend. Finally when I had enough, I bought an '86 Ski Nautique in excellent shape for 9k, and after skiing the course behind a 50 hp outboard for the last 20 years, I had to completely re-teach myself how to ski. It was that different. I couldn't even carve a turn at first.

Lucky for me, I'm partial to older cars and boats, and even if I had the $$ and did buy a newer boat, I'd still keep my old dual exhaust, no computer sportin' '86. I LOVE the '70s and '80s SNs and MCs. To me, I don't like the new ones much more, if any, than the older ones, so another $40k for a new one would be a big waste of my money.

So to sum up what I've been rambling about, it's not like you have to decide between an old outboard that will be "good enough" or a brand new $50k MC. There's a crapload of options in between. I couldn't be happier with my $9k SN.

If you're asking why the hell would anyone spend $50k on a new boat, there are some nice features that older ones don't have, and if you've got the money and those features are worth the $$ to you, go for it!

By E.J. (deuce) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 9:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Because the Little Man is a Nautique snob said it would improve skiing....

I want this to come off as nice as possible, but if you don't know the difference between a 50 K tow specific boat and a 10 K Bayliner, best do A LOT more research before you drop money for either.


By ryan (powerstroke) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 10:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
jeff great post i wanted to make a post similar so many times.
buy what you got the money for!!!!
i bought a 1990 ski specific boat and i think it will do the trick. no disrespect to anyone intended but i think my wake is just as good as yours. yeah i dont have all the storage or the bling but it getsssss the job done and for only 5k instead of 50k. just think of what else you could spend the 45k you have left over. you obviously have the bug already to be posting so good luck on your boat hunt. as long as you are having fun that is all that matters. i can have loads of fun in my cheap boat just like anyone could have in there expensive boat.

(Message edited by powerstroke on January 10, 2005)

By ken w. (kenteck) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 11:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff I had the same thought a few years back, I started with 15k to buy a boat and instead of spending it all on a boat,I bought this one for 6k and used the rest of the money on other things, like tower,boards,tubes,skis,ropes,stero system and more, Im happy and we all have fun with it and it puts out a good wake,It has a brand new 5.8 plenty of power. Its not a X Star but it will do for now. someday I will get enough money and get one..
One thing though It was called a barney boat by someone in a new master craft, anyone know why???


By ryan (powerstroke) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 12:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
maybe they think barney is gay and refer to your boat as a gay boat without really saying it. who knows. nice boat man.
By Ryan Nelson (rugr) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 7:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Interesting Post.
I have to agree with everyone. Take me for example. Started out with a '99 Bayliner '18, started wakeboarding, added a pylon, etc. . .
The Bayliner was a GREAT boat, never had any problems, easy on gas, lots of fun. But then my buddy pulled me behind his '96 Nautique one day and I saw the light. From the first pull I was pulling off tricks I never dreamed of behind my Bayliner. Maybe it was just mental, but I will tell you it helped.
Then there is the matter of how small an 18' boat gets when you start to add sacs and people for weight. Put 6 people and gear (wakeboards, sacs, lifejackets, etc) in an 18 foot boat, and all of a sudden it isn't fun anymore, . . . IT IS CROWDED!!
I soon fell into the "two foot rule" as do many boat owners. Better known as the "every 2 years, you need another 2 feet" rule.
Well, I held off the urge and waited a few more years and went from an 18 footer to my new 23 foot XLV. (I was also able to take great care of the Bayliner and sell it for almost what I paid for it, believe it or not!) I figure this way, I should be able to keep it for at least 10 years.
I'm not going to tell you not to get an 18' runabout, because I LOVED mine and for a first boat they are GREAT to learn on. (i.e. much cheaper to fix if you say hit a rock with the prop) But I will tell you that if you catch the boating or wakeboarding "BUG" that many have talked about on this thread, in a few years you will want a bigger/better boat.

Good luck!

By Chris M (tahoe) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 8:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What Boat Show has new Ski Boats for 10K ?
By Daniel Perry (poser007) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 11:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Last summer was the first time I ever wakeboarded. A friend invited me out on his 2003 18 ft Searay. It took me 15 tries to get up, but once I did I was hooked! What a blast. Went out about 5 more times and started to get a little air off his dinky little wake. Thought I was having lots of fun.. Another friend took me out in a 2000 Ski Centurion tower the whole thing. Holy crap I was getting air like never before. (maybe 2-3 feet but hey) The boat made all the difference. I am picking up my first Boat on the 22nd. Bought a 02 Calabria Pro V loaded with only 6 hours on it for 32 grand. Im 38 years old and cant wait for the weather to warm up, this sport is awesome no matter what boat you have, just makes it better with the right equipment if you can aford it.

By TSO (tyler_o) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 12:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I remember hearing a boat slogan awhile back (I believe it was Maxum) that said:

"Buy your second boat first"

What the slogan for anyone buying a boat should really be is:

"figure out what your going to do with a boat first"

I too caught the "Bug" and I'm selling a great performance boat in favor of a Wakeboard boat. Maybe it's not a "Bug" but a healthy addiction?

By Downside uP (downside_up) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 7:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
10 times a year? 10 times a month. for 8 months. okay, maybe only 7 times a month, average, but if you're a wakeboarder, you won't be using your boat only 10 times a year.
By derek boyer (toyotafreak) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 10:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
To be fair, you need to ask two questions cuz they're not really related: 1) why would I spend $50K on a boat, and 2) why would I buy a wakeboard-specific boat?

If you compared a $50K towboat with a $50K performance boat, you'd see some similarities. First and foremost is a solid, well-engineered, 22-foot hull. Second is a strong, well-engineered drivetrain. Third are abundant, high-quality extras that are appropriate for their species. In hotboats you're talking anodized, billet everything with killer graphics in the gelcoat, killer stereo, trim tabs, loud exhaust, etc. along with 70+ mph. In a towboat you get a solid tower, racks, auto ballast, cruise control, all them other goodies. In other words, you're getting a custom or semi-custom boat.

If you took that same $50K to the Maxum or other true production boat dealer, you'll come away with a nice looking, big 23-foot runabout or a 25-foot day cruiser. Both will be completely filled with gadgets that are all low-end and will break. The hull will change shape, doors will cease to fit, the vinyl, gelcoat and canvas will all deteriorate quickly. Most of the drains come from the factory plugged with chopper-glass leftovers. Most of them cool gadgets will be replaced. By you. At serious cost. You'll go to a dealer that is run by hired guns who pressure-sell over a dozen boats each week. The service department is geared to deal with all the 20-hour per year guys (watch it, Derek) who don't care to know anything about their boats but can gripe up a storm.

As for the second point, the other guys can speak to the wakeboard specifics better cuz they're real riders (I'm not, yet). However, here's what I liked about towboats even before I owned a towboat: everything's solid (compared to a runabout). Solid pull, solid track, solid-feeling hull and steering. Solid shift linkage, hatches, entry, stability. The basics in the boat are very simple as well. Simple drivetrain, good access to most components. Basically, towboats are simpler - until you load them up with all these other sport-specific systems.

Then again, most of these systems are pretty well thought out and engineered. Those that aren't are quickly identified by a well-informed, dedicated and populace group of enthusiasts that have probably already found a way around the problem.

By Gary (sanger215guy) on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 4:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
My 2 cents: If you believe there is 30+ thousands of dollars in better enginering and quality parts then your missing the big corprate picture. Supply and Demand. The public will pay the price so they can make what ever claims they want to inflate the price. Someone tell me where the leaps and bounds of technoligy is that can take a boat from mid 20 to mid 50. A ballast system and tower isint that over the top. Even a complete hull design dosen't justify it. Popularity is the driving force. I am just one of the dummies still willing to pay 40+ for the product.
By Paul (psudy) on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 6:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
You are right about supply and demand, but lets not forget R&D and labor costs that goes into these boats. Quality controls cost money, and that cost gets passed on to the consumer.

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