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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through January 14, 2005 » Session 22XI. ?? « Previous Next »
By masahiro (hiro) on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 7:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am a Japanese.Therefore, English is weak.
I am sorry to be unclear English.
help me.

It is interested in this boat.The schedule which buys 05 models.
Is session good?
Have someone ridden?
What does everybody think?
Or is it in the boat regarded as better?

Please give information.
Thank you.

 
By masahiro (hiro) on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 2:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
session had a dealer in Japan.
Therefore, it is interested.
It is interested also in Malibu which asked a question before, of course here.
However, it thought [ that there had better be a dealer good for Japan, and ].

rides if Japan has a demonstration boat.
However, I want to hear everybody's opinion.

Thank you for your consideration.

 
By J.Cox (aircox) on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 8:34 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What other choices do you have?
 
By masahiro (hiro) on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 9:25 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
J.Cox
maribu vlx@or super air 210 or air 226 : Since I think that 210 is somewhat small.
I desire hard-core wakeboard boats.
Since Japan does not have 05 demonstration boat of cc and maribu, information is important.

What do you think?
Please give advice.

(Message edited by hiro on November 14, 2004)

 
By Mik (norcalrider) on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 4:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Having only seen the Sessions boat at the Boat Show last year.

Not impressed. The whole boat seemed like a cheap gimmick. IMO the Sessions boat is no where near the level of the Malibu or SAN.

 
By David D (wakeguru) on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 9:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I rode behind a Session 22si. The wake was very nice, it drove well and the boat seemed well built.

Also, you can probably get a Session from your Japan dealer for a lot less $$ than a shipped Malibu or Super Air and the sale will help encourage other manufacturers to do business in Japan.

 
By Jim P (ajwaker) on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 6:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I own a SessionSI. Former Malibu and Moomba owner. Session quality equal or better IMO. Don't knock the boat till you tried it. The boat handles better than a VLX weighted. Is more solid in double-ups than a VLX. This is all first hand, can anyone else say they have driven and wakeboarded behind both boats for any length of time. Session are built by Regal. Regal builts to a higher standard than Malibu and Moomba. Try them both/all and than make a decision based on what you want.





 
By Sean Bouse (sean123) on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Is that weighted? Wake looks like it has a nice shape, but small.

Sean

 
By Pierce Bronkite (pierce_bronkite) on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 12:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Looks like a nice shape. Pictures never do justice for the wake size.
 
By Jim P (ajwaker) on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 1:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have 1400lbs in the boat. About 900lbs in rear, 500lbs midship in locker below floor. A few people in the boat. If you add another 500lbs midhsip on floor the wake shape is the same just bigger. The boat can handle plenty of weight and still drives good. The wake is very hard. You have to hit to believe it. The last three pictures are a guy that weight 210lbs, 6-2. You should see the doulbe-ups.
 
By trace (trace) on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 2:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:


Regal builts to a higher standard than Malibu and Moomba.



i've been in a couple Regals I/O's, and they're nice, for I/O's. the fit & finish (only) seems nicer than the Moombas i've been in, but to say they're higher build quality than a Malibu IMO is quite a stretch. what yrs/models were your previous boats? also, it looks like the rider really punched thru the wake in the last pic. regardless, i always like to see new players to come to the game, and Session has a lot of innovative ideas. glad you like your boat.

 
By Derek Kruse (dkruse) on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 3:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I HAVE A 05 VLX ON ORDER, AND WITH 1250 STOCK BALLAST AND ANOTHER 1000 WITH THE WEDGE, THATS HARD TO COMPETE WITH THIS YEAR. THROW IN A COUPLE OF SACKS IN THE MIDDLE AND WELL YOU KNOW......
 
By Jim P (ajwaker) on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 6:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have own a 99 Moomba, 2001 Malibu, 2004 Session. I have taken the factory tour in 2001 at Malibu, Mastercraft, Moomba/Supra and CorrectCraft spending @ 4-hours at each. Standards: refering to ISO 90001:2000 certification. Malibu and Moomba/Supra do not build to this standard. "Equal or better" If you are refering to interior in Malibu's, I could show you some pictures of 2001 VLX and how well it holds up. Hopefully it will hold up in Session. Looking at the last picture. He is trying a backroll, I think he started his roll early and never made it to the top of the wake. Just splashing water over the wake. I am not saying this is the best/greatest boat. Just, I think people should take a look at it and try it. Before buying the Session, I looked at the SuperAirTE, X-2, VLX. I bought the Session new for what a 2002 SuperAirTE was going to cost.
 
By Jeff Guilford (fogey) on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 10:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jim P said: "Standards: refering to ISO 90001:2000 certification. Malibu and Moomba/Supra do not build to this standard."

Talking about "building" a boat to an ISO standard doesn't make any sense. ISO 9001 standards refer to specified quality-related management processes, not results. For example, both BMW and Hyundai have ISO 9001 certification, but I don't think anyone would suggest their cars have comparable quality.

Furthermore, do you know for a fact that Skiers Choice does not use processes that meet (or exceed) ISO minimum requirements? Or, could it be that they simply have not gone to the (considerable) expense of obtaining ISO certification of their processes?

I think one of the key aspects of an ISO-approved process is determining what the customer wants. I also think that Skiers Choice participation on this site reflects a very significant commitment to this important aspect of quality--a commitment I have not seen from any other manufacturer.

 
By trace (trace) on Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 4:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
thanks for the explanation of the comment. i can't say that i've toured any factories, and Malibu did have a well known problem with their vinyl in & around 01. did Malibu take care of your problems?

Regal does have a lifetime warranty on their hulls, though, which does show they have confidence in their product. the Session site isn't very detailed, but do they also carry the same warranty?

Jeff is correct, however, regarding ISO standards. they only really refer to internal business processes and documentation as related to quality, but not the quality of materials, components, or construction processes. i also agree on the comments re Skier's Choice. Tig reps have participated as well, but not to the same level from what i've seen. the participation of Session reps on this board in particular leaves a lot to be desired, to say the least.

then again, Hyundais have longer warranties than BMWs, too.

 
By David D (wakeguru) on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 9:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Business processes related to quality...sounds like quality control and how does that not affect the finished product?

Jeff, you must be referring to the gel coat problems of some Supra owners that were addressed by Skiers Choice on this and other sites. At least for one owner, it was only after they came on and aired their greivences with Skier's Choice that they received a reply...more like damage control than quality control.

I've been around tow boats for 15+ years and was impressed with the wake and build of the Session.

 
By Jeff Guilford (fogey) on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 1:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It doesn't matter much what ISO standards "sound like" to you. What matters is what ISO standards actually require. They do not specify any quality requirements for the construction of a boat, and thus talk of "building a boat to ISO standards" is a non-sequitur.

In addition, companies can meet or exceed ISO 9001:2000 standards without going to the expense of getting ISO certification (for example, the one I work for). So, the absence of ISO certification doesn't mean the company's management processes don't meet ISO standards.

And your assumption about what I "must" be referring to is completely erroneous, as well. It's great that you're impressed with the wake and build of a Session. However, I don't see what this has to do with ISO standards or Skiers Choice--unless, of course, you feel a need to tear down a product to make something you like look better.

 
By chuck j (wake_eater) on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 5:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
give 'em hell, Jeff!!!!!
 
By David D (wakeguru) on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 8:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nice play on the words, Jeff.

The fact remains that the certification represents that a company has taken steps to ensure that those quality, management (or whatever you'd prefer to call them) controls are in place and that ultimately affects the final product in any company whether that product be tangible or not.

"the absence of ISO certification doesn't mean the company's management processes don't meet ISO standards." No duh.

I didn't say anthing about the ISO standards of Skier's Choice. You wanted to prop them up for paying attention to the consumers wants via a website. I contend that it was only after a few owners started a smear campaign that I noticed any concern from Skier's Choice for the individual owners on sites like these.

"unless, of course, you feel a need to tear down a product to make something you like look better." Nice try. I'm not trying to "tear down" anything. See the prior paragraph. However, it is interesting to me that you perceived an attack.

 
By Jim P (ajwaker) on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 4:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff, How can you meet or exceed a standard, if you are not certified in that standard. Just because you think so, doesn't make it so. I guess all boats are built the same and it doesn't matter. Why would a company waste money on qualtiy control, anyway?
 
By Kraig Kaiser (kraig) on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 4:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think we all know what Jeff was conveying. Here's another example: Ski boat manufacturers can advertise their ski boats as "AWSA Approved" if they pay the American Water Ski Assoc. for the certification and prove that the boat can perform to the specified requirements. Now this is a hefty sum of money but it is a selling point. Some manufacturers AWSA certify their boats because it's a selling point. Then in subsequent years they may not pay for the certification. Doesn't mean the boat doesn't perform the same. It just means that the manufacturer didn't go through the process and pay for it. Same boat that performs the same though....
As for Skiers Choice, they actively participate on this board as an aspect of customer service, not because they had to do some damage control on a gelcoat problem. And when I say they I mean dealers, the management and even the CEO himself Rick Tinker. You can email Rick Tinker and he WILL respond to your emails. I wanna see another manufacturer of ANY product, not just boats, do that! Kudos to Skiers Choice! And Kudos to Jeff!

 
By Jim P (ajwaker) on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 6:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Kraig,
You can e-mail Mike Anderson and he will personally take you on a test ride in the Orlando Area.
When I went to Moomba/Supra, Rick Tinker met us at the door and Jay Warren showed us around the factory. These guys are very nice and the company builds great boats. I don't think I was bashing, just stating a fact.
I don't know what Jeff was trying to convey.
Moomba/Supra have/had boats "AWSA approved". I had one. Why did they do that? To Sell A Product.
ISO whatever. Just shows that a company is willing/trying to built a better product. Are all boats built the same? Basically.
I guess if its shiney and floats, its cool. Oh, and does what you want it to do. Kudos to all. Happy Thanksgiving!!!

 
By Jon Allen (jon_a) on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 12:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post

Haha, David D said "no duh". Sorry, just giving you a hard time.

I've never been in a Sessions boat but I have heard that they are a good boat. The way I look at it, all boat manufacturers must have something good and wanted about their boat or they wouldn't be in business. To answer Masahiro's question, demo as much as possible. I would make my decision on that and how the dealer is.

 
By JPhillips (speakersox) on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 10:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
There is a Sessions dealer down the street from me, yet I have never seen one out at the lake or even one being trailered.

 
By Psyclone (cyclonecj) on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 12:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I looked them over pretty well at the boat show when they came out, when they were still owned and built by Regal. The boat was not finished out like ski boats typically are, it was a lot more like an IO in terms of fittings and finish. It was outrageously expensive ($59k) especially for a boat show price. I'll bet they ditched the video game and TV junk to lower the price, good idea. None of it worked on the demo boat anyway!

I haven't ridden behind one but I did see one on the lake last year and the wake was huge, it was obvious even from a distance. The new ones look much nicer, they got rid of the ugly tower and bimini.

As for ISO certification, it is more or less a joke. Just a hoop some companies choose to jump through to help sell stuff internationally.

 
By Jim P (ajwaker) on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 6:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The Session is still built by Regal. You can buy one for 15-20k less than 59k, I did. The wake is nice. Since the ISO thing is a joke. Expensive joke. I pulled out my old 2004 WaterSkiMag. Boat Buyer Guide and noted the warranty between the different boat builders. If any have this issue, check out the gelcoat warranty. Some companys are wiiling to stand behind their products materials and workmanship with a warranty. While others, you must hope for goodwill by the company that they will fix your boat after a year.
 
By Nate (norcalmalibu) on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 10:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
also boatingonline.com the magaizine has basiccly videos and specs on all the boats were talking about here. If anyone wants to take a look.
 
By leo lasecki (malibuboarder75) on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 8:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
im going with derek, the vlx is hard to compete with. 1250lbs internal plus 1000lbs wedge in 5 seconds. Add a few people and you have pro wake without sacs. Add a few more sacs on top of that and you have a huge wake.
 
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