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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through April 01, 2004 » ENZO towerbox « Previous Next »
By Grant (whitechocolate) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 2:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok the orignal thread got arcived so I needed to start a new one. I should have the box back from paint next week,

By Mike Teague (bigdeal) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 2:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant, if I count correctly (which 'is' questionable sometimes), that sucker will house eight 6x9's when it's done? What speakers are you gonna install in it and what are you gonna power them with (i.e. amp(s))? That box is wild lookin.... Can't wait to see it finished and installed on your boat.


(Message edited by bigdeal on March 21, 2004)

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 2:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I just got the Boston Acoustics NX-97's I wanted to show you, For anyone worried about weight on your tower look into these. These speakers look like a Joke, with the tiny little magnet and the stamped metal basket, But trust me they sound awesome, Good thing I heard them first before I saw the back side of them. The NX 97's weigh 1/2 as much as regular 6X9's because the Neodymiun magnet is stronger than a regular magnet & dosent need to be as big. The 2 speaker's with grills weigh 4 1/2 pounds

By Chris Foye (wakejunky) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 5:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
So, how much is the whole thing going to weigh? Doesn't look light. How you going to mount that thing? From the center hole on he top?

Get the Grip you Deserve

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 9:55 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Lets see the 8 speakers will weigh 20 lbs and lets say the box weighs 60 the lights and all the wire like 10 so Like 90 lb's

The box will mount directley to the center flat bar and then bolt to the 2 outer flat bars, there is a peice of angle bar running threw the box making a secure mountiong location

By jeff hill (hillbilly) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 12:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey KING OF BLING, I bought those after I read your previous post about them. I heard them at the store I bought them from and they sound good to me, But I'm not an Audiophile like yourself. But I second you on the bought before looked at the back thing......They look cheaper then OEM speakers. Also do you know anything about ECLIPSE amps? DA6213 I think is the model, I cant find any thing about them on the web. Sweet box by the way JEFF
By Grant (whitechocolate) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 2:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff I havent heard anything on the Eclipse Amps Ill look into it or do you have the spec sheet on them.
By Grant (whitechocolate) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 2:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff I haven't heard anything on the Eclipse Amps Ill look into it or do you have the spec sheet on them.
By jan w (jwag) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 2:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
sorry, I can't help myself

+++ jpeg +++ 105162 +++ blingmeter +++

(Message edited by jwag on March 23, 2004)

(Message edited by jwag on March 23, 2004)

By jeff hill (hillbilly) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 2:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
2ohm 500x2 4ohm 250x2 THD @ rated power 2 ohm 0.007% THD @ rated power 4 ohms 0.005 % 13.8v DC (10.8-15.6v)
By jan w (jwag) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 2:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
obviously having technical difficulties with the attachment button...blingmeter

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 3:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff: sorry but thoes #'s dont look good, That's the same type of #'s you would see from a Kicker or Rockford Fosgate ect.

1. IMO The THD is way to High
2. 13.8 Volts that's what the amp is rated at. what happens when you start loosing power like down to 12v. The power goes down and the THD goes up. IMO 2 thumbs Down

By jan w (jwag) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
So just for the hell of it:

McIntosh 4ohm 300wx2 .005%THD @12v s/n 114db
PPI 4ohm 400x2 .02%THD @12v s/n 115
Kicker 4ohm 213x2 .02 thd @13.8v s/n >100 (they claim at 14.4v the thd goes up to 1%)

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Are you sure that mac is at 0.05% and when you get your boat to push 14.4 volts, Then your the man!

I have 4 blue tops and a 165 amp alternator and I dont see 14.4 v Bring your lunch!

By jan w (jwag) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
all the numbers are from their respective websites. I think you are right, realistically who is going to really see anything much over 13 volts? I don't get Kicker's claim either; increase the voltage and the THD goes up??? I thought it was the other way around.
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 4:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Cery cool. Nice work.
By Grant (whitechocolate) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 6:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
ask Doug! he know's more about this kind of stuff, Doug What up with that!
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 7:25 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
McInotsh distrotion levels are rated at max power of the amps so the distortion level of less than .005 should be the same regardless of whether the amp is seeing 12 volts or 14.4 volts. All McInotsh amp have regulated power supplies so the actually power rating will be realized whether 12 volts of 14.4 volts. You wont necessarily get more wattage at 14.4 than 12 volts.

Alot of amp manufacturers give you a THD rating at 1 watt, not maximum power. THD rating can also be skewed by the frequency THD is tested for by some companies. So you may see a THD rating of say .05, but that may be at 1 watt and at 500 hz or 1k or etc. . . . whatever frequency has the lowest.

Wihtout power regulation, THD can go up as the voltage increases. I believe the other two amps mentioned lack power regulation and will see increased wattage and increased distortion as wattage is increased.

Companies are starting to rate their amps at more realistic voltage levels in effort not to be associated with the low end cheap amps that rate at unrealistic power levels. Consumers did get smart on this and have realized that you get what you pay for as far as power claims.

Some McIntosh models have autoformers which regulate impedience, but these are very expensive.

The problem is nothing preclude an amnp company, to my knowledge, of advertising max wattage, but yet stating a THD reading in the same sentence based on distortion levels at one watt or at a given frequency. Paper specification will not always be a clear indicator of an amps performance and some of the high end amps are very conservative in their rating whereas some of the mid level lower line stuff maybe listing best case scenarios.

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 8:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Doug, Thanks. I was told that the law was written by Lawyers in a complex way so that common people need lawyers to uderstand it. I see I can apply the same theroy for amp's. "LOL" I was wondring myself. I bet alot of sales for amp company's depended on what the TEC sheet said. I would think they would look for ways to fudge the #'s in a way so that the amp looked better that it realy was. Im guessing there is no international standard for showing spec's on somthing like this, untill then you have to know all the ways they are getting thoes #'s

By jan w (jwag) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 10:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
It stinks but to be honest just what I expected. There are so many ways to fudge the numbers that what we are looking at is not really the expected output. We all know what the good amps are and will continue to buy them based on past experience.
By wake_fun (wake_fun) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 11:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The REAL DEAL.........

By jeff hill (hillbilly) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
So I should not get the ECLIPSE to run a sub? A friend has it and does not use it. Wanted to do a trade type deal for some old stuff I got.
By Shawn Jessup (bigjessup) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think Id save the million and get the Modena Spyder!
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Consumers have caught on the the wattage v. volts issue pretty well. Most people know that those 1,000 watt pyramids for $ 199.00 are BS as far as power ratings. A true 150 or 200 watt amp will be more powerful than that 1,000 watt because it could be based on 16 volts, 15 volts or 14.4 volts.

The key is that a true 4 ohm watt is going to cost at least a $ 1.00. If you want a true 400 watt amp, be prepared to spend $ 400.00 low end and $ 5.00 a watt upper end.

The monoblocks which are 1 ohm stable and etc. are probably exceptions, but take for example the PG Ti 600.2 amp. Although it is a 600 watt amp, in 4 ohm, it is only 125 watts per channel. So figure about $ 1.00 a watt maybe a $ 1.50 a watt.

THD is still the big mystery. Most people say no-one can tell the difference between .02 and .005. Maybe not, but the .02 may be a 1k at 1 watt reading and at 800 hz or 2k, the THD may be as high as 5 or 10 percent at rated power. McInotsh runs about $ 4.00 or so a watt, but you get .005 from 20hz to 22k at rated power an no surprises between 20hz and 22k whether at 1 watt or rated power.

You truly get what you pay for . . . although spec sheets don't always tell the full story. That is why I have bought so many different amps through the years in search of the right sound.

By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post

Eclipses are not too bad. They do have a new competition line out that looks very nice, but they are also $ 1,500.00 or so. The regular stuff is okay, not bad not great.

By Keith (rkg) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 1:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I shudder to think where FOsgate would fall on your list
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 3:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Fosgate is respectable. I don't think they over rate their amps. The main downside to them is mass production and the association with Best Buy.
By Grant (whitechocolate) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 3:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Fosgate power rated at 14.4 Volts 0.009%THD
By jan w (jwag) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 3:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
So now that we are totally off track,and the thread HiJack button is fully depressed, what is the most important spec to look at when all you have is a tech sheet? THD, Signal to Noise, Input Sensitivity? Interesting to see what opinions will come out.
By jan w (jwag) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 3:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Oh, and I actually have a question about the box! Do you have MDF pieces that fit into the holes in the front?
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 3:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Spec sheets good for power and SN ratio. The problem with sound quality is that amps are mainly affected by their filters, crossovers, or on board electronics which will affect SQ. This may not be measureable so much. The key is what your amp sounds like with your head unit and speakers. It is kind of useless to use a McIntosh amp if the head unit you have is .5 THD and produces a weak or unclean signal. I bypassed the filters on my PPI and used an electronic McIntosh crossover to handle the processing and it sound very comparable to the McIntosh. Just a touch brighter. I have heard speakers on my McIntosh that did not sound so great also. I saw a test in CA&E this month of a $ 2,000 set of Phass speakers. I was interested in purchasing those until I read the review and saw the Kimell distortion charts on it. Those things were producing 75 percent distortion at 800 hz and would likely sound questionable regardless of what amp and head unit you used.

What I quess I am trying to get at is buy a great speaker such as Dynaudio and use a solid head unit with low THD, strong signal and dual 20 bit processing and the amp becomes perhaps the least important factor in the equation.

The coloration and SQ of filters and on board electronics perhaps cannot be quantified by a spec sheet. The most important thing is to try it out kind of like what we say about wakes of various boats.

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 4:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
What happens to the THD level if the boat is made with Wood?

Good insite Doug. Now im sorry I ever asked the question, I feel like throwing everything I ever bought away .HaHa J/K

Jan the front will have 2 lights in each opening and Black speaker type of grills covering the holes Kind of like this

By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 4:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I just ordered one of these audiocontrol DQXs. This would allow you to bypass crossovers on your amp and would set alot of amps on pretty equal footing per what I said above.

The Linkwitz-Riley electronics should be ultra smooth and the 30 band eq would allow one to compensate for dips and peaks. This would be pretty killer for your set up Grant.


I got mine at woofersetc.com and it should be here tomorrow. Maybe junk, but looks and sound great. I should know tomorrow.

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 6:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yes I would be intrested in hearing how that worked out for you. How much does that unit cost
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 6:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
$ 499.00.
By jan w (jwag) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 6:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3087330241&category=14931

By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 6:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
There you go. Save alot of money. I bought mine at woofersetc.com and was willing to pay more because I wanted overnight delivery. Patience is not much of a virtue for me.
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 6:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
BTW, I would be careful though as I believe just the crossover unit is $ 299.00 and they did put the wrong picture up.
By jan w (jwag) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 6:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Doug, I hear ya, it still has six days though, so it may reach $499
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 7:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If that is a DQX, I would try and pick it up for anything under $ 350.00. They were hard to get for a while and I am sure you could re-sell it if you did not like it.
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 6:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The DQX is absolutel awesome. Highly recommend. Great sound quality. I also really like the way Audiocontrol has taken the quesswork out of gain adjust with this unit.

I also installed the Dynaudio 6.5 GT series woofers in my doors. Very nice. If you want extremely long throw loud and clear speakers, Dynaudio is the way to go with that 3 inch voice coil. The voice coil is about the size of voice coils on a lot of subs.

By Grant (whitechocolate) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 4:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Doug where di you mount this unit in your car Is it in a place where you adjust it all the time or a set it and forget it thing
By Kyle (hamkj) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 5:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If anyone is looking for a Premier ODR System... I just took one out of my car that I will sell...

Deck, changer, Controller, D/A Processor/Converter, all the fiber optic cables etc...

Optical Digital Reference Series!!!

Let me know...

email me at


By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 5:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Set and forget about. I put it up in the front trunk area. You could mount it in the front or under a seat, but I would like to keep my RCA cables short as possible to keep unwanted noise out.
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 6:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I just saw in CA&E that Audiocontorl makes a remote device with a screen and button for the interior and the remote device also has a hand held remote control as if that would be really necessary.

(Message edited by xtigeman on March 27, 2004)

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