|I've been following Duane's (from NVS) posts for a while now, regarding the use of Pro Audio equipment for tower speakers. It sounded pretty cool, but I was really wondering, "How clear can music really be at 70 feet, in choppy water, with 18 boats around?" |
So I talked to Duane and arranged a demo on sunday afternoon in Discovery Bay. The boat was setup with 4 of the NVS "Entity" pods, but only two pods were hooked up at a time. I believe the 8's were hooked up when we were riding, so we were listening to four 8's, and 2 horns.
It really was absolutely insane. The water was rough, boats were everywhere, and it was a little windy, didn't matter. The music was so loud and clear, I had a hard time concentrating on riding. I just wanted to listen to the music and look at other people's reactions as we drove by and pooped all over their stereos.
We weren't listening to rap music with big slow beats either. Most of it was relatively fast punk rock, which is basically the toughest music to play loud(without sounding bad).
Honestly, the best part of the day was when we left. Duane and his buddies were going back out for some more riding. As he turned the boat around and pulled about 100 feet away from the dock, he cranked it up. It just about blew my hat off! Everyone in the vicinity stopped what they were doing and stared. Old people frowned, young people smiled. It was impressive. To be considerate of others, he only had it cranked for 20 seconds or so.
Anybody who's been to this Disco Bay marina knows how long the "no wake" zone is. It's at least a good 1/4 mile. Me and my buddy waited until Duane got close to the end of the "no wake" zone. I called him on his cell phone and told him to crank it up. He cranked it, and I could hear it coming over the phone, but not through the air. I figured he was just too far away. Not .5 seconds later, we heard music, PERFECTLY clear, from about 1/4 mile away. It was unbelievable!
If you're in the norcal area, GO and get a demo of the speakers. Duane and all his buddies are super cool, and they let you listen to your own music while riding. I really can't imagine anybody riding behind this boat, then going out and buying another tower speaker setup.
|I'm looking at purchasing a pair from him. Is he running any other sub in the boat?|
|Nice post! As I had thought... Awesome system. |
www.nvs1.net <---Duanes website.
|I believe he had a sub in the left sun deck storage, and another under the driver's seat. There may have been another in the passenger side storage compartment. |
The music we were listening to doesn't really have any bass, so I didn't pay real close attention to the setup.
I'm pretty sure the tower speakers (four eights, two horns), were all being driven by one 800 watt amp.
It really was unbelievable how loud the music was while riding.
|Thanks guys, especially Joe for the kind words and your review on the Entity Pro Audio speakers. You and Ben were great to have on the boat. (Nice inverts too!) |
I have to say I was surprised at the test of the No wake zone, or at least the results. I feel like I should go and get a more accurate measurement of just how far that was. If anyone knows or can measure it, we were like 3 or 4 houses before the entrance to Beaver Bay when we did the test. In the boat we were looking back at the marina and of course could see the ramp and all but it was far enough that I honestly could not make out people. Ok, maybe I need glasses.
Anyway, to answer Stephen's question on subs, the subs that are currently in the boat consist of 2 12" MTX 6000's (sealed box's), and 1 12" JLAudio W6 in a ported box. Not the badest on the block but I do intentionally keep these turned down a bit when doing demo's because that is not what you are there to listen to.
Anyone is welcome to come and take a listen and get a free ride. Bring any music you want so you have a good reference as to what it should sound like. Just give me a hollar and we'll set it up and see if you like it.
Oh, and the Power on the Tower, yes, 1 amp 400 watts per 2 channels rated at 4 ohms.
|Does it get uncomfortably loud inside the boat or does the long through design help with in boat volume levels?|
|It's not too loud in the boat at all. The sound is very focused. |
However, I'm pretty sure if you stood up on the back seat, directly in line with the horns, your ears would bleed.
Try it out, but be prepared to shell out money afterwards. Theres no way you'll go back to regular tower speakers.
|Duane i've asked you a few questions in the past about your setups and now I have 2 more questions. First you mention that you are running a 2ch amp at 400w per channel at 4 ohm. The specs on your site mention 2.7 ohms for the entire assembly so are you running more than 400w to them? I only ask because i'm trying to decide if I want to run a 2ch Orion 8002 throwing about 350w to each or the 1200D running 1.3 ohm should throw roughly 500-550w to each setup. I know the class D amps are not really good at clear highs so is the 305 or so watts good enough or do I need to look elsewhere. Finally if i'm going to pay a pretty penny for these setups I have no problem paying the extra 200$ to go to the 10 inch setup, my question is what kind of sound difference are you seeing between the 2 systems? Thanks again for answering all my nagging questions. Matt|
Amplifiers are normally rated at a particualar load, i.e. 4 ohms, 2 ohms, for class A/B and Class D amps are usually rated at 4, 2 and 1 ohm as well.
When I state my recomendations for power at 4 ohms, it is because amps are not rated at 2.7 which is the actual load of the unit.
Additionally, most A/B amps are stable to 2 ohms if you run in Stereo mode. The only trade off in running at 2 ohms is that the THD will normally increase.
Having said that, I tried to get the specs on the amps you mention and could not find them from a couple of sources including the Orion website (which is surprising) I know that they at least have an excellent reputation but I cannont comment too much without the specs.
But, I will say unless there is a ton of headroom with the 8002 rated at 200 watts x 2 channels at 4 ohms, it would be somewhat less then ideal.
Now the 1200D: Class D amps are always (as far as I know) mono, i.e. single channel output. I also would advise against using the Orion 1200D for the Entity's.
Assuming you're having some difficulty in finding an amp that you like, you can also select a 4 channel amp that when 2 of the outputs are bridged, they have the necessary power.
Everyone has a favourite manufacturer and usually for a good reason. Here are a couple that you can use to compare with that at least have sufficient power.
Rockford Fosgate 801X 400 x2, 4 ohms
PPI PCX420 320 x 2, 4 ohms
Kicker SX700 350 x 2, 4 ohms
Kicker KX600.4 300 x 2, 4 ohms
Kicker KX800.4 400 x 2, 4 ohms
Each of these are available for $300 or less.
Maybe someone else will see this and offer other suggestions.
OK, the Entity 1010, the sound difference. Yes you can tell the difference. But it's not huge. They are rated at just a little higher in current and offer about 3 dB more SPL wich is noticable. Most of the Entity 1010's we've put up I think are just as much motivated by the appearance as the performance. They really make a statement when you see them.
Here is a picture with the both of them on a tower at one time. We call it the Entity Array.
Hope I answered your q's
|I want to ride behind that boat so bad with all those speakers well amped!!! That has GOT TO sound incredible !!!|
|Ok i'll move more towards a 8004 which is rated at 400w per channel when bridged at 4 ohms. All my Orion products have been great so far and they carry a great amount of brand loyalty in my book. That aside I have known most of them to be under rated as far as claimed power goes. Looking at your above post I still have to ask, the amps you have listed are 400w at 4 ohm so at a 2.7 ohm load they are putting out more than 400w. This is ok? Again just making sure as I will be buying my amps before the speaker systems. BTW how long is the wait for the setups at the moment? Matt|
Sounds good. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice. The 400 per is actually just right. You'll find that you won't have to turn it up much which keeps things nice and cool.
The delivery is only a couple of weeks right now but you should contact us at http://www.nvs1.netand get some specifics.
We should have our speaker covers ready by next week and will be a nice addition for keep things nice.
|could one setup handle a jl 500/1?|
|How heavy is the 808 setup?|
Class "D" amps really wouldn't work for this stuff. It's not a power thing, it's the Frequency response that "D's" are designed to produce which is specifically for Subs. The 500/1 puts out freq's 5-500 Hz. The Entity's need 200 Hz and up.
The Entity 808 weighs 35 lbs. Your profile pic looks as though it may have been taken at Orwood. I frequent that Marina to do free demo's if you're interrested.
|We are there in the summer a lot. Your tower setup is the best i have seen. Lots of good feedback and this is exactly what i am looking for. I would love to hear them before i drop that much $. Next time i am up that way i will contact you.|
|heard them on sunday, holy $#!t loud and clear, it was on a red centurion, three guys wearing collared shirts, kinda stood out, but the speakers sounded killer.|
|Busted! Wow, I can't even take a few BBQ guests out for a late afternoon boat ride. |
BTW, I had the Entity 808's yesterday.
Thanks spicoli for the feedback.
|which jl amp do you recommend? max power of course. when is the delivery going change. i am impatience.i want to order then have it the next week.|
I don't claim any expertise in amps but I went to the JL Audio website to see what the current offering includes. We'll 5 amps are offered that can produce a symetrical output on 2 chanels but none higher than 150 x 2 at 4 ohms. So, unless I missed something, I'd be shopping elsewhere.
I really don't like getting very involved with the amp thing because there are so many to choose from, personal perferences, and new models always coming out that makes it tough to stay on top of all of them.....and my speakers.
Just check out the issues over on Grant's thread talking THD on some high end amps.
What I can tell you is what my speakers need in terms of power. As much as I'd like to tell you what amp is best the fact is that what is best for one person may be low end for another or a bank buster for someone else.
If you come and take advantage of one of my free domo's, what you'll hear is currently powered by a RF 801x. This is a 4 channel amp bridged to put out 400 watts at 4 ohms x 2.
If you think it has too much THD then you should get a higher quality amp.
I'll be the first to agree that nothing beats clean power, but you do get to a point by which it is not decernable to the average Wakeboarder at 75 feet 22 mph. Only you can decide where that is.
And the delivery thing, well, you're either in line, or not in line. That's all I can tell ya because they are a movin. I'm working hard to make sure that our commitments are met so if you are really serious contact the website. Figure it this way, you really don't buy them till I take your money, and I don't do that til they ship. http://nvs1.net
|By cdm (cdm) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 7:18 pm:
|Do your speakers attach to a 03' X-Star tower? Does this cost more? |
If so, how much?
Assuming the RF 801x is good enough, if not higher quality than I would demand, (I know nothing technical about amps/speakers) how much is the amp?
I have the stock Clarion X-Star speaker package with the 04' Clarion tower speakers. It sounds fine in and around the boat but not while riding.
What do you think about the idea of centering one of your 808's or 1010's between these clarions speakers. Would it look ok and could I hear them when riding?
Thanks in advance!!
We haven't done that tower yet so the quick answer is I don't know. However, we have a MC dealer very close by and I can check very quickly about connecting to your tower. I will send you a pm tomorrow with my answer.
Not clear on your second comment/question except to say that the RF 801x is available at or just under $300.
As far as the single unit goes, most definetly. Yours' is one of the situations that led us to offer the Single. The looks could be enhanced with more complimenting grills. We could assist with changing out the Clarion Grills with the Flame grills to match.....killer!
|By cdm (cdm) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 8:47 pm:
|sounds good? how much for 8 Flame grills? Thanks |
|The grills run around $20 pair for that size. I'll pm you tomorrow with some information regarding the tower etc. |
|Dodge...try orion amps..they really rock..|
|Orion 8004 is what i'm looking at, anyhow Duane shoot me a PM regarding the 04 X-star tower as well please. Matt|
|cdm, Matt, |
Good news! YES, NVS can accomodate the 3" X-Star Tower. You heard (read) it here first.
|on Mr. Burns voice "Excellent"|