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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through April 01, 2004 » NADA Pricing: 2002 X-Star & 2002 SANTE « Previous Next »
By Whit (whit) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 6:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Before this year's boat show I started to do my research on how boats have been selling. Checking BoatTrader and FlipSell I noticed there were some great deals to be had on Super Air Team Editions. After a little more looking I realized the SANTE were priced similar to the X-Star/X-2 (205V Hull). In fact checking the ad dates, it looks like the used SANTE's are moving slower than the Mastercraft's.

After checking NADA pricing, my suspsions where confirmed. In 2002 the Correct Craft Super Air Team Edition came stock from the factory with the same options as the Mastercraft X-Star. In 2002 both boats were equals. The price of the SANTE was about five thousand dollars more than the X-Star.

Why is the X-Star now listed as being worth $39,320 but the SANTE is listed with a value of $37,920.

The SANTE still carries a warranty, originally sold for more, and is generally accepted as the best of the best. Can anyone explain the $1,400 difference in NADA pricing? Or why there seem to be so many SANTE's for sale in Boat Trader and Flipsell at an awesome price that aren't selling?

At the boat show I asked a CC VP if he could explain the difference and got the answer that the Mastercraft included a trailer, but the Correct Craft didn't. Great answer--but it was wrong. Neither price includes a trailer. A twenty minute talk with the Correct Craft factory guys and ten minutes in the 211 and 226 got me really worried about Correct Craft.

The Correct Craft guys seem to be falling out of touch really quickly. In 1999 I believe Correct Craft was #2 and Mastercraft was #1. If the Supra dealer at this year's boat show was telling the truth, in 2003 the ranking was Mastercraft still #1, but CorrectCraft had fallen to #4, behind Malibu #2 and Skier's Choice #3. When I asked the Correct Craft guys what boat of theirs compete with the X-Star. There response was the Super Air Team Edition. When I asked them why the SANTE competed against the new style X-Star and not similar looking X-2, I was told the 211 fills that slot.

So what has happened to the price of SANTE's on the used market? Why the inability to hold their value? Is it simply supply and demand or are their other factors I am missing?

(Message edited by whit on March 04, 2004)

 
By Dan (dfish) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 7:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
NADA would probably give you the best answer.

Why is a 2003 X-2 $35,960? Maybe the MC guys can answer that one.

 
By Dan (dfish) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 7:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Final thought:

The X-2 was almost 5k more than the guys that "lost touch." And the MC dealer was quick to point out the keyless ignition carried a $2,000 price tag if it needed replaced vs. the MC $5.00 ignition that can be had at Shucks.

MC also pointed out the fiberglass swim step was $1,800 vs its teak at $800.

Finally the 5 year promise warranty was a cost that was passed on to the consumer. He could add a third party warranty to five years at a cost of $1,200.

So if my math is correct the X-2 was already $4,700 more than a SANTE. Add $4,200 for the warranty, swim step, and keyless ignition.

Easy to understand, why after reading all the CC bashing threads about their price, I was shocked the MC was $8,900 more than a CC--Apples to Apples.



(Message edited by dfish on March 04, 2004)

 
By Whit (whit) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 7:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
2002 was the only year both the X-Star and the SANTE had a similar hull and both came from the factory equiped with similar standard options.

In 2003 Mastercraft retired the 205V hull as their flagship boat and changed to the new pickelfork. The standard equipment delivered on a 2003 X-2 does not include options like Perfect Pass, ballast, cleats, transom saver, not sure about board racks--but you get the idea. In 2003 the X-2 became a budget boat.

I think that explains the drop in the 2003 price.

The better place to compare 2003 prices is BoatTrader or FlipSell. (Also check the age of the ad.)

 
By Dan (dfish) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 8:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
A $55k "budget boat?"

2003-X-2

Board Racks: Standard
Triple KGB, with internal pumps: Standard
Bow Cleats: Optional Add $100 for the pair
Add $1,600 for dealer installed Perfect Pass
Add $0.00 for the Transom Saver

The adds are usually Camp Boats or boats that have colored hulls.

 
By JZwake (jzwake) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 5:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
55k for a X-2,I hope no one bought one at that price. Real World pricing on an X-2 in Maryland is between 41-50k. 50k decked out. of course you can option out the boat to get it higher with the overkill engine an all (LQ9)


 
By Kaiser Soze (tattoobling) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:14 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Lord help me, I'm doin' it again.

"Don't succumb to excuses. Go back to the job of making the corrections and forming the habits that will make your goal possible."

Dan, as you will quickly notice, I am quoting you. Are you going to go back to the job of making corrections or would you too like to be a Correct Craft Rep? If so, you are well on your way because from Whit's experience at the boat show, espousing mistruths appear to be a prerequesite for the job. No worries, I will make the corrections for you: The 03 X-2 WAS meant to be a "budget boat" (for a budget that can afford an MSRP OF $46k NOT $55k) and the 2003 NADA value on an X-2 is because, contrary to your spew, the KGB ballast and Board Racks were options. The CD Player, Remote, Amp and Subwoofer were also options. These total close to 6 grand. A teak platform is standard on the boat in any year, not $800. And I guess it was one of those summer camp counselors that quoted you $1,800 on a fiberglass platform. No arguement on the price of the warranty.

I have no idea why a SAN immediately drops to or below the value of an X-2/old Star. But I do know that you are full of it and you recently bought a nice boat. Feel good about it and check your facts before you continue to justify your purchase to yourself.

 
By E.J. (deuce) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:20 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I was under the impression(told by the dealer) that ballast was an option on an '03 X-2.

As is a stereo, which is truly amazing. I understand many want to outfit in their own, but IMO, it "should" be standard and then take off the money if you want to have it come without. Who gets a boat without a stereo?

E.J.

 
By Kaiser Soze (tattoobling) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:29 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
EJ,

The stereo arguement could go either way. If you're and audiophile, you wouldn't want the factory stereo from any of these companies. So it's nice to save a little ching and put in your own stuff.

 
By Zack (raider40) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
As someone who owns an 02 XStar and has been working on getting a new 04 X2 I can tell you that the KGB ballast is not an option but the stereo is. Perfect Pass is a $1600 option (I've quizzed them hard on that), and the teak platform is standard (upgrade to fg for $318).

I've found that the "sticker" price on a new X2 will run into the $55K range but that you'll get the boat for considerably less than that. It is interesting that the MC is holding its value better than the SAN. I would have thought it would be the other way around.

 
By KStateAlumni(aka Brad Beach) (bbeach) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
It's not a picklefork hull, it's called a cathedral hull desigb...
 
By Joe Hiestand (superairdawg) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 9:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Falling out of touch with reality? Where are the the ratings coming from? Customer Service Satisfaction? Take a glance at http://www.jdpower.com/cc/boats/jdpa_ratings/BoatRatings.jsp and you'll find that CC isn't necessarily falling out of touch with reality. If you're talking sales, Bayliner sells a ton of boats too.

 
By Jefe (eljefepequeno) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 9:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Humm, Just did a search on Boattraderonline.com

I see 10 2003 SAN's for sale with a price range of 44-49K

I see 25 2003 X2's for sale with a price range of 44-65K

I see there are less people needing to sell their SAN, I also do not see the X2's holding their price better than the SAN. I just see inflated X2 prices.

If you don't believe me, go do a search yourself.

(Message edited by eljefepequeno on March 05, 2004)

 
By JZwake (jzwake) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 10:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I hope no one really buys into the JD power ratings. They can not rate the boat market the same way they do the car market. Not enough product in hands of consumers. This is evident by the fact that they only have 5 brands with enough feedback for results. How do you let an owner evaluate their own boat, most have never even looked for greener grass. And come on, I'm a former and Probably Future SAN owner and I know the storage is not as good as Tige or BU.

JD power is no better then posting a Which boat brand is best thread on this site.

 
By Greg Davis (vortech347) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:13 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
No better than using a handful of boats on boat trader to determine that an X2 holds it value better than a SAN. Just too many variables to consider.


 
By Rod Rinnert (deltahoosier) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 12:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just remember, just because they are listing for that much, does not mean they are selling for that much.
 
By Dan (dfish) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 12:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Kaiser

Easy....you must be an MC salesman.

My statements are based on fact and not intended to start a mine is better than yours debate based on hearsay.

And to think all those things I read in the MC marketing campaign were b.s. The real reason they kept the X-Star and renamed it X-2 was not because it was the best selling hull design they ever had but because they needed a 55K price point boat.

Why don't you e-mail that over to their marketing department.


(Message edited by dfish on March 05, 2004)

 
By JZwake (jzwake) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 12:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan,

Your right, but the REAL reason they kept the old X star and renamed it to X-2 was because they still owned the molds, machines, and designs for that provened boat. Overhead costs on the old X star were payed for, hence better margin.

IMO, the x-2 is not a Price point boat at 44k or 55k, it is another boat in the higher price line of mastercraft. Wakesetter, mobius ls, switch v, and that centurion boat are price point.

(Message edited by jzwake on March 05, 2004)

 
By Kaiser Soze (tattoobling) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 1:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I swear this thread has ADD. It's gone from book value to standard vs. options to who lies more (I'm guilty of perpetuating that one) to JD Power. And Fish, you may be basing your statements on fact but you're bouncing numbers all over the place like a 3rd rate F&I manager at Samson's Used Cars (He's Dealin'). I reread your post and I can't even tell what the heck you're talking about.

Who cares anyhow, what it boils down to is this: SANTE is generally a couple grand more than a loaded X-2 and on the resale market the gap closes a little bit. So what, go buy whatever the hell you want. Have a great weekend.

 
By Zedz Dead (ktm250) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 1:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jefe…what you see is through rose colored glasses. The fact is MasterCraft builds and sells 3 times as many boats as Correct Craft. So, consequently there would more of them for sale. As a Correct Craft owner you are about as unbiased in this debate I would be. So rather than jump into the fray with unsubstantiated claims why not simply use what banks use to determine loan value on used boat purchases? Try the NADA guide in which case you would clearly see residual value vs. MSRP.

NADA guides are based solely and I quote: on in-depth research, market analysis, and sales reports. No need to guess or make false claims, the information is out there and EVRY major lender uses it.

Well I know your dying to hear so:

2002 Correct Craft Super Air (330hp) includes value of tower and LCS = $41,540
2002 Correct Craft Super Air Team (330hp) includes the above = $42,850
VS.
2002 MasterCraft X-Star =$44,430

There it is in black and white. I used the January thru April 2004 edition available wherever fine books are sold. Oh, you may ask why I used 2002 as the model year. Well, the sampling data on model year 2003 is too small as to report it for Correct Craft. Goes back to the number of units sold (see above).

 
By Kaiser Soze (tattoobling) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 1:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I stand corrected. The gap apparently reverses itself.
 
By Zedz Dead (ktm250) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 1:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
By the way I forgot to mention these are the "high retail" numbers as they appear in the book.
 
By Jefe (eljefepequeno) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 2:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Uhm, OK, that makes no sense. What did I say that is unsubstantiated? The only thing here that is unsubstantiated is your claim that Mastercraft sells three times the amount of boats. I am talking real life here.
http://www.scma.com/news/feb2003.pdf

If you theory worked correctly then there should be as many VLX's for sale as X2- or close to it.
Sorry, 9.

But hey, I agree that I am a Correct Craft owner, and I am just stating things as I see them, only I don't know how what I see is wrong. If you disagree, look it up yourself.

I am selling my 210, and a buddy of mine is selling his X2, and another is selling his 2003 X-Star. All of us, still have our boats for sale.

Regarding NADA, sure does look good in BW for Mastercraft, I'll see what happens. I am sure glad I don't have to compete with 24 other boats of the same brand, that is currently for sale on Boattraderonline.

 
By Dan (dfish) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 4:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Kaiser

Have an issue with the numbers call Cope & McPhetres Marine. Thought the guy was an idiot for making such an issue of the costs for the keyless ignition, fiberglass platform and the warranty. PM me and I will give you the salesman's name and number.

Resale: Our MC dealers have been bad for so long, MC's do not fetch top dollar in the NW despite the NADA.

NADA: My SANTE cost $4,700 less than an X-2 from my LOCAL MC dealer (who also sells yachts--and 03 was a good year in yacht sales). Consequently, I would expect the resale to be higher for an X-2 because it initially costs MORE.

This A.D.D. guy can't dumb it down any more than that.

 
By Zedz Dead (ktm250) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 4:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have posted the recorded sales figures elsewhere on this board. MasterCraft and Malibu both sell in excess of 3000 boats per year, Correct Craft by comparison currently sales around 1200. These numbers are year end sales figures posted by Soundings Inc. and are comprised of the reported numbers from each manufacturer.

I have no explanation as to the VLX versus X2, except that the Malibu comes in so many different names and flavors that your search would need to include all of them. The fact of the matter is that NADA is even less kind to them (Malibu).

FYI, I am in no way saying that this is a perfect means to an end; however, when someone is going to a bank for finance be it B of A, Wachovia or Bank of the West this is the ruler by which they are judged.

Hey good luck with the sale, you have beautiful boat it seems a shame to have to sell… (Unless you’re getting a new one!)

 
By DJL (dholio) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 4:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I want to touch on the JD Powers again. If MC and Malibu are selling almost three times as many boats as CC, why is CC still winning? If the owners are happy with their Malibu's and MC's you would think that the owners of those two brands would outweigh the CC owners right? So what is going on here? It appears to me that CC has more satisfied customers than the other two brands do. For the 2002 year, the MC dealer was saying that MC didn't win it because they didn't have their hull dialed in but they would by 2003. So what happened? Not sure but they sure didn't win it.
 
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