|Im going to be buying a new boat in the next week and need help on making a decision. Im looking at a 20v with ballasts but the dealer tells me i dont need them. When i add perfect pass and ballasts im within 2k of the X2 and am having a hard time deciding. Do i really need the ballasts? Which boat will have a better wake? |
Thanks for any info.
I can't tell you which will have a better wake...but I can tell you that I think your dealer is wrong about you not wanting ballast. At first you may be happy w/ the "unweighted" wake, but as I'm sure almost everyone in here will tell you...you'll want it bigger and bigger the more you ride. It's like having a race car...it may be fast, but you'll always be trying to get more speed out of it no matter what.
Does the salesperson you're dealing w/ wakeboard?
Also, did the dealer tell you that he doesn't think you'll want the ballast before or after you told him that the boat's price would be getting that close to an X2? If you mentioned that at all?
|Get the ballasts system. For me I like the Tige wake better but it is up to you ride behind the both and decide.|
|By zach (klk) on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 6:26 pm:
|Go with the Tige' and get the ballast |
- Tige owner -
|Go with the MC and get the value.|
|If you're serious about buying a Tige, read the thread "Beware of Tige" in this forum. You don't hear problems like that about MC. Also if they're telling you not to get ballast they're full of it. The taps system is a joke.|
|By zach (klk) on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 9:04 pm:
|BS BS BS, don't tell me that kind of crap, a friend of mine was in his and the wires that attach to the blower snaped got wrapped around his propeller shaft an bent it still virbrates from that too, i was there, anothers rudder dropped out of his boat and it spun out of control two people were thrown from the boat and it slid over the top of one of the people. Both Were MASTERCRAFT. and i have read about other mastercrafts spinning out and landing on shore, posted on wakeworld. |
(Message edited by klk on March 02, 2004)
(Message edited by klk on March 02, 2004)
|The infamous boat that landed on shore was not a production hull. It was a prototype.|
|Brandon, I own a 2002 Tige 20v. It puts out a really nice wake with some weight in it. When I first got it I thought the wake was plenty big without weight, but as I got used to it I wanted more and now I run about 1,200# of ballast and really wish I had a ballast system instead of fat sacks. |
The X2 is also a really good boat obviously. I'm surprised they are that close in price since my 20v was about 8K less than a similar X2.
TAPS works really well actually, you can control the shape and size of the wake which is really nice when you have a variety of skill levels and boat speeds. Also, the 20v puts out an incredible wakesurfing wake. Here's a pic of mine with about 800# of ballast in the left rear locker.
Geoff is about 6'3".
|If your serious about dropping that kind of dough, do yourself a favor and demo. I think choice would be easily made at that point.|
|i actually own a malibu but have friends who own both master craft and tige. From what they say and being in both boats alot I would personally go with the master craft, and thats a malibu guy talking. My friends tige had the taps thing, which we all thought was a joke, and i would definately get ballast if you're gonna drop that kind of money on a boat, if you don't you'll proably regret it|
|x-2 Its that simple.|
|Yeah, I would x-2 too as well but if you decide to get the Tige' def get the ballast but don't use the factory one ask about the rival ballast system, its better and has more capacity than the factory option.|
|By BR (blr) on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 10:54 pm:
|in the group of friends that i ride w/ we have 3 tiges and 1 x2. the guy who has the x2 loves his boat, but he has seriously considered selling it for a 20V. Taps or no taps, get the ballast for all the reasons above. One huge difference between the x2 and the tige is the width, you won't notice a ton of difference in the width unless you ride in both with 5 or more people. the storage on the tige also seems to be not only more but a bit more thought out. both are great boats so demo them both and then decide. you make the choice, also ask around other owners of both dealers, find out which dealer is going to treat you better after the sale. also find out about discounts the dealer will give you after the sale. my tige dealer treats me like a friend. I didn't feel like i would get the same from the masatercraft dealer, my friend with the x2 has proven me correct (dealer comment not manufacturer comment)|
|How does the wake of the 20V compare to the X-2 BR?|
|I have an X2 and love it. Can't comment on tige cause I've never been in one. I can comment on the Malibu VLX though..If it were me, I would go with either the X2 or VLX. I like both boats for a variety of reasons..but you should demo all the boats you are considering. The only problem with listening to people on here is they are so brand loyal sometimes they act like other boats are crap.. |
Oh yeah,,GET THE BALLAST SYSTEM no matter what boat you end up with...you will regret it if you don't. Filling 5 or 6 fat sacs gets old after a while.
|I would like to demo these boats but unfortunately I live in Iowa where the lakes are still frozen and if i dont get my boat on order soon i wont get it till the middle of summer. Is the rival ballast system much more expensive than factory? |
|By zach (klk) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 7:07 am:
|one problem with the rival. if the factory won't put it in and you put it in your warranty is void. go with the factory ballast with the tige' if you go that way, and if you want to save money, the switch V is the same boat as the 20v, it's just not as nice looking on the inside, but it would save you a couple grand and you could put that money towards ballast and stereo stuff.|
|Tom, all boats have problems are you just now figuring that out? Did you read the 03 Malibu Wakesetter VLX thread? Also have you been in a Tige? wilson is dead on about listening to people on here that are so brand loyal. |
(Message edited by Pierce Bronkite on March 03, 2004)
|By zach (klk) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 7:56 am:
|i will agree to being a very tige' loyal person myself, and i don't think anyone would argue that. and, all boat brands have problems if you go through a summer without a single problem you should be happy, been in boats since i was born and i know a boats a boat and thats life. I will say that Tige's boats are alot better now and just like other brands will continue to develop even better boats. The new hulls are kick a$$. |
(Message edited by klk on March 03, 2004)
|I'm also surprised to hear the cost is so close. I've not shopped MC lately, but someone is either charging too much or the MC guys are giving you a heck of a deal. |
I love my Tige 21V but have never been in a MC. Ballast would have been nice, but my limiting factor in my wakeboard progress is definitely NOT my wake, its my lack of skills and practice time. Guys who are good pull EVERY trick they want behind my boat without ballast (inluding Raleys etc.)
|zach, I market the Rival Download ballast system. There are no warranty issues in using this system. The advantages of our system over the factory system are as follows. Our system uses soft bags rather than hard tanks. This will give you more weight and does not take up storage space when not in use. It can be filled while driving where the factory system is only filled when sitting still. It fills and empties faster than the factory system. The factory system is well designed I just think that the Rival has some advantages.|
|Zach, putting a Rival ballast system in an Tige DOES NOT void your warranty. The owner of Rival is a Tige dealer. I had warranty work done on my Tige and have a Rival system. It is the best option I have on my boat.|
|By zach (klk) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 9:44 am:
|cool thats just what was told to me|
|Personally I have never had a satisfactory encounter with anything to do with Tige. From the dealer to friends of mine that own them. I have been behind several Tiges including the boat in question and I just do not care for the brand. Of the 2 the MasterCraft would certainly be my choice, especially if they are so close in price. I know there are a ton of people out there who swear by Tiges, but I have heard way too many bad reports, heard from unhappy owners, and literally been aboard Tiges that creek, rattle, and fall apart right in front of your eyes. They seem to have less power, do not handle that well and their wakes are average at best (comparatively speaking to other WAKEBOARD boats). So if the choice is X-2 or 20V, go for the X-2. BTW................as stated through this and other posts, dealer support is a huge factor as well, regardless of overall boat performance. Good Luck!!!|
|If I were You I would either wait to demo the boats or plan a 3 day trip to some warm part of the country and just demo 3 or 4 boats that you are interested in. |
Until you demo them you will be taking a chance you don't like what you chose or may be second guessing yourself everytime you see the other boat you were interested in.
It wouldn't cost much to take a short trip to Florida, California or Arizona to demo the boats. Don't even bother to tell the dealers your from out of town.
I would never make such a large purchase without a demo.
Lastly, the dealer in your area with the best reputation should get the first shot at selling you a boat. Trust me a dealer can absolutely ruin your satisfaction level of even the best boat.
|the room between the x-2 and the 20 v is a joke, sure the tige is wider but owning an x-2 and sitting in a 20v at the show its no question... the tige is cramped!!!! smallest cockpit ive ever been in. not a bash to any 20 v owners this is just a reply to an above post about space. Love my x-2 no problems here.|
|I owned a tige for one season. Now I have an x2. I am one of the few who have owned both. I know each manufacturer well. like I said, now I have an x2. |
ps - the dealer is an idiot if he says you don't need ballast. Obviously this guy/gal knows nothing about wakeboarding
|Vic is right about the driver's seat room. I am tall 6'9'' (hence the name), and found the 20v driver's seat to be too short for long legs and tall knees. My 21V however has tons of leg room. I've not sat in an X-2. Demo is so important to note things like that. |
|That must be the trend with tige dealers. The one I was talking to kept telling me that Ballast wasn't needed unless you were a pro and then you only need the Fact ballast. I promptly laughed at him and explained what a wakeboard is.|
|By zach (klk) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:09 pm:
|By BR (blr) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:44 pm:
|Darren Yearsley (ralph) |
the wakes are totally different, which means at least 1/2 of your first run (at least for me) to adjust. They are both great, just different. the x2 is steeper all the way through, but the tige is steep at the top but a slower transition.
|Check the resale values of the boats. If you buy the X-2 and don't like the boat--your ability to sell the boat and recoup your investment will be much better than with the Tige. |
i.e. Buy the X-2, if you don't like it, sell it an buy the Tige. If you do it the other way around you will loose lots of money when selling the Tige.
|I would go X2 as well...|
|How does the X2 get away without having washy or too steep wakes depending on weight without having a hydraulic wake plate? It just sort of bothers me that every other boat has it but the X2?|
|SAN, X-Series, BU and MB do not have wakeplates|
|ahh all supras do not have a hydraulic wake plate either..i have a 2000 and it has a fixed plate you would have to adjust by hand out of the water..i set it when i bought the boat and figured out where i liked it best and left it there but it doesnt need it to have a clean wake.. |
MOST wake plates are just to help conserve gas by getting the boat on plane faster as well as adjusting the plate a bit to raise or lower the bow at high speeds to prevent pourposing of the bow..they dont do much more then that..Yes in some cases it may help clean a wake up a bit but for the most part they dont do much for the wake,they serve another purpose...
So Brandon boats do not need the plate to have a good clean wake ,they were just added for other reasons which do work but are not needed..
Like John said nautys,Malibus,and Mastercrafts do not have them and i have been behind those boats and you dont miss the plate...Its nice to have if its there but not needed..
|My .02: |
I have heard too many "Tige sucks" posts to even consider them. Go with MC. Every wake I have seen has been incredible.
|Rich, you listen to the "Tige sucks" posters but not the "I love my Tige" posters? A guy here in San Diego was given a new 2004 X-Star because he had so many problems with his 2003. For $90,000 he expected a much better boat, but it had endless problems. Under the lemon law they replaced it. Point is that it can happen with any brand of boat. |
|See you answered the problem, MC stepped up and gave him a new boat....enough said. |
I have yet to hear Tige answering the problems w/ their problem children. Every dealer has them, it's how they respond to them. To me (and this is my opinion) I rarely hear about MC not responding to a problem and fixing it. So far I know of 2 MAJOR tige issues both are really hairy. YOU TELL ME? what would you buy?
|By zach (klk) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 9:19 pm:
|tige' and i all ready did |
|Me too. I bought my 20v after doing a lot of research including getting as much info as I could on the Tige dealer. I learned the hard way with a previous boat that the dealer can make all of the difference. The other Tige thread is a perfect example because a good dealer would have identified and fixed the problem immediately. |
By the way, you apparently missed the part about the lemon law - MC had to replace the boat or give him his money back.
|"By the way, you apparently missed the part about the lemon law - MC had to replace the boat or give him his money back". |
Then why isnt this happening with Tige? Just asking btw.
|By Rich (rson) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:34 pm:
|No company "has to" replace a item. There is always litigation and arbitration. Don't kid your self.|
|Maybe Texas doesn't have a lemon law that applies to boats - California does. |
|If he paid 90K for an X-star, then he needs a swift kick to the ass. MC just gave him a new boat because they felt sorry for the guy or had a two for special.|
|I have a Tige and love the boat, the wake and the room in the boat. I like the wake behind my Tige better than the X2. |
Now if I was buying new would I buy Tige or Mastercraft as much as I like the Tige I would go with the X2 for one reason and one reason only the Dealer. The Mastercraft dealer has been around for quite sometime and is great; the Tige dealers keep changing if there is even one around.
Now if the Mastercraft dealer carried Tige as well I would buy the Tige because I like the room in the Tige and the wake of the Tige.
If I could afford any boat I wanted I would go with the Nautique, great dealer and awesome wake only draw back small inside.
But no matter what boat you buy get the most ballast you can. Definitely test them all out and ride behind each one donít just drive it. Add the weight you will use when you ride so you get a true idea of what the boat is like and choose what is best for you not what we all think is better. We all like different things. Good luck.