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WakeWorld Discussion Board » Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles » Archive through June 28, 2009 » Underwater LED Test! « Previous Next »
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
As talked about on another thread. We wanted to get a few underwater LED's and test them out. Mike Ski said he had bought 2 of the White LED Bullet lines X6000 in the W/W group buy back some time ago. He hasn't installed them and offers them up for the test. Ken was nice enough to send me one of the NEW Bullet lines X8000 LED's I got it today. Ryan from Chucktronic's has a White Ocean LED and he also has the Amphibians we were going to test the A6's. So for right now we have 3 Lights to test. Amphibians, Bullet X6000 and Bullet X8000. I want to do the test with in the next 2 week's so if you have a light and you want it included in the test please send it over grantwest@gmail.com
How the test will work.
Each light will be mounted to a piece of wood and mounted to the dock. All lights will be tested at the same water depth. Each light will be photographed from a few fixed angles so you will be able to see the how one light compares against the other. I have a digital power supply so Power draw and amps will be noted. Price and picks of each light will all be included in each test. It would be cool to have a wide price range of lights so we could test some of the cheaper lights so that people that don't want to spend $600 to $1000 for transom mounted LEDs can see how the cheaper lights compare. All the lights will be returned. For all the people wondering if this will be a fair test. Mike and I will be wearing white lab jackets and drinking beer so you can be sure the test will be on the up and up.

Ken from Bullet lines was the first to send me his NEW high powerd LED. Here are a few Picks of it.
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

First off Im pretty impressed with this light the thing weighs like 2 lbs and and feels like a nice piece of equipment. It looks very well made. The power draw is 1.13 Amp's Very Very low for how bright this light looks. It has a external power regulator and inline fuse.

Who ever wants to help out and or be apart of the test let me know your welcome.
G

 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
sweet! looking forward to this. so that light pictured is the new X8000?
 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Damn that thing is huge. It looks like it will be set off the transom about 1/16" after installation?
 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
nubu nope, you have to drill that hole into your transom.
 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
G I think that light is the X6000 correct?

Bruce I'm talking about the mounting tabs for the screw holes.

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on March 20, 2009)

 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
This is going to be a good read for sure. Thanks Grant.
 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
sorry nubu, i should have known you know better. :-)
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nice. Would be interesting to see those compared to the stock Malibu LEDs. I wish I had a set to send you. Maybe someone has a great relationship with their dealer & can make that arrangement.

Like nu bu said, it looks like they stand off from the transom a bit. Maybe to allow water behind them for cooling?

 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 2:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
We are working on a group buy of some led underwater lights direct from Hong Kong, not sure if we'll have them here in time but they are alot cheaper then most. They have 200lm for $52 and 400lm for $76 and 720lm for $195 and all are available in red, green, yellow, blue and white. For the tests are all the lights your using white? Let me know and I'll order one extra of all these lights for you to test.
 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 2:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Please please please test the cheap ones!! Gonna test how hot they get or how long/if they turn off?
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 3:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yes the test will be with WHITE led's.
That's what Mike and Ryan both had so that's what Ken sent us. IMO its best to test all the same color
Red is going to test diffrent than Blue and so on.

Robert: Yes please get me one of your light's. I would like to include what ever you can send.

The light in the picture is the NEW Bullet X8000

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 3:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"G"

Have you got anyone from the shadowcaster lights to send you one? Maybe Tigemike will shoot you one, he's a dealer.

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 3:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nope no shadowcaster lights. Give me his contact info and or pass my'n onto him it would be great to get some.
 
By Greg Bodor (gti2lo) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 4:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I want to see how KEn's new X8000's compare against the A6 Ocean LED's....

These are the two I am comparing and the winner I will buy...

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 6:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
www.shadow-caster.com

There you "G" .... Or I'll send a message to Mike and tell him to get ahold of you. I know he talked about it with you in the previous thread.

 
By jimmy (reachjims) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 7:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
are you gonna screw those into the bottom of your boat, or on the swim deck?
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 8:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
$600 each.... Nice.

How about a "ballin on a budget" test?

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 8:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jimmy: Nither all the lights we are gonna test are Transom mounted lights.

John: Ill test what ever. Company's with the entry level lights should not be afraid to ba apart of this test. I have a feeling some of the cheaper lights will do real well. If people know what they are getting for their money they don't have any problem spending it. Im sure most people don't wanna shell out $600 for transom lights. But if you know how a light performs and if fits with in your budjet Im sure their is a customer for every light.
The thing is we wanna do it all at once. All at the same time under the same conditions. We can set the cammera setting's and leave them so that all the pictures of the lights are taken under the same conditions at the same angle. We were hoping that the pictures would back up what we see in real time. The pictures were only one part of the test. But it's somthing that people can relate to.

 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
can we get a best guess on mtbf for 1 of the led's inside the lamp housing?
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I understand. Glad to see that you're doing this.... Cost is the biggest factor in this for me and others.
 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
those X8000's look good. is the whole housing a solid piece? if not, what's the finish?
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Alright "G" we're going to order on monday for the group buy on underwater led's I'll make sure to get a extra light in white for the tests in all three of there models. I think people would be alot more interested in some boat bling for $52, $76, and $195 Let you know as soon as we have a confirmed ship date, hopefully we can get included in the tests! Thanks Robert
 
By pete c (saceone) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 3:34 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
G for admin.
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 4:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I sent an email to the guys at Shadow-Caster, I'll see what I can do to get you a light.
 
By michaelspsp (michaelspsp) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 5:13 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i have to ask, why would LED transom lights cost $600?
 
By Jeff Pound (jfpound) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 8:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Excellent question. This is Jeff, I'm one of the founders of Shadow-Caster.

First, we are very happy to be able to participate in this test. Our experience has been that people get a much better appreciation for the products after seeing them in person.

As for the price, there are a number of reasons for our $599 price point. A product that lives on the transom of a boat is subject to a very harsh mechanical and electrical environment and must be thoroughly designed for such. Our product has gone through over a year and a half of development, it has thermal protection, transient surge protection, and power regulation all built into the light with no external module. The electronics are in a mechanical housing made from machined 304 stainless and injection molded polycarbonate that provides a physically sleek design with ruggedness and good heat dissipation. We have never had water in any Shadow-Caster. These are very high quality products.

The low volume is also a big driver of the cost. In terms of global economy the marine LED market is very small, so as compared to cell phones that are made by the millions our market is 1/1000th the size. Lower volume means the parts cost exponentially more and are built by hand here in the United States instead of in China. Then there is marketing, warranty liability, manufacturing overhead, etc. The unfortunate reality is that there are a lot more costs to bringing a product to market than that of the materials to build the product.

Looking forward to seeing the test results.

Jeff
www.shadow-caster.com

 
By Jeff Pound (jfpound) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 9:20 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
A little more information on why our SC-10 product is what it is. I’m a boater and wakeboarder; I spend a lot of time on the water. I wanted transom lights and looked at what was available but did not find a product I loved. Having been in the LED based optics business for several years my business partner and I decided to make our own. In the interest of being sure we were going to build something we liked, we first built a prototype with 6 LUXEON LEDs. It looked good, but for us, it was not bright enough to pass the “worth having” test. We wanted lights that were bright enough to really work well and make a statement. So next we built a prototype with 10 CREE LEDs and at THAT we were convinced we had something bright enough to do what we wanted and definitely be "worth having". That prototype has evolved into the SC-10 product.

(Message edited by jfpound on March 21, 2009)

(Message edited by jfpound on March 21, 2009)

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 11:20 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I know for a fact the shadow casters were thoroughly tested, and were OVERLY engineered. We got to watch the original testing and were kept updated w/ info as they progressed over on Tigeowners. They were done to military spec. They also produce 2000 Lumens, compare that to the other stuff.

I would buy then in a heartbeat! But for me the price point hit above what I'm willing to spend, for what I consider "mood lighting". Plus they don't offer red (which they have a very good reason for that).

They probably are the best around. But we'll see for sure with the tests!

(Message edited by Tanner on March 21, 2009)

 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Sunday, March 22, 2009 - 4:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am looking forward to this. I have some Abyss Blue that I can send, but sounds like that is not what you are after.

I know you probably know, but make sure the camera is not on any automatic settings or it will automatically tone down the brighter lights in pictures. In theory this 2000 lumen light is going to be huge compared to 720 or less. I would think you couldn't take the same picture with the same settings without it just turning into a bunch of light.

 
By pete c (saceone) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 5:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
G is a rockstar.
bump

 
By Rod (rvh3) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 6:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Can't wait, Thanks Grant.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 2:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tall: Good tip's with the Cammera setting's. Mike is realy good with the picture part so Im gonna have him take all the pictures in the test.

Mike has a light brightness tester so we can do a out of the water light test. We can come up with some bace line numbers for each one of the light's It will be intresting to see if the brightest light out of the water is the brightest
in the water.

The lake right now is pretty clear. At the docks you can see about 6 feet down no problem. All lights will be tested at the same depth at night.

The Shadow Casters are on the way.

 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 3:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
this may be a silly question, but how long do the little led lamps last? is there any MTBF data on them? or do they simply work longer than you'd ever own your boat. any issues with vibration, impact (double-ups), etc? can the lamps themselves be replaced?
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 3:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I've noticed MTBF ratings of 40,000 & 100,000 hrs. Thats a lotta years of use.... especially considering I probably used them like 20 or 25 hrs last year.

The Malibu lights appear to be pretty sealed up. So when the LEDs go out, I think you'd have to replace the entire fixture.

 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 4:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Cool, glad to hear Jeff @ Shadow Casters got one on the way!
 
By Jeff (www.shadow-caster.com) (jfpound) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 5:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey Guys,

Since you mentioned a brightness meter there is something that should be considered. A meter that measures light intensity at a particular point is doing just that, measuring at a point. So the focus of the beam must be considered. Say for instance you have two lights both of equal output in lumens, one focuses the light into a beam that spreads at 15 degrees divergence and the other focuses the beam for a 30 degree divergence. When held directly in front your meter will tell you that the light with 15 degree divergence is much brighter even though the output is the same. The only way to measure the total light output is by using an integrating sphere which collects all the light to a sensor.

lumens = (brightness) x (area)

While were talking about focus Ill point out that you cant tell a lot about the brightness of a light by the manufactures claim of how far it penetrates the water. A light designed with a spot type of focus will penetrate the water much farther but in only a narrow region. This is typically done to make more of a statement with a dimmer light. The Shadow-Caster SC-10 is a flood as opposed to a spot and is designed to flood the water with light instead of produce a narrow beam, you can tell from the pics on our web page that it DOES flood the water.

Jeff
www.shadow-caster.com

 
By Jeff (www.shadow-caster.com) (jfpound) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 5:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
To address a couple questions above.

1)LEDs in general are extremely resistant to shock and vibration. That however does not mean that the rest of the light is, it will depend on the design of the supporting electronics. I have 10 years experience in mechanical design of military electronics so I know all too much about this.

2)The user doesn't typically replace LEDs because they are generally soldered in place. Theoretically they will far outlast your boat considering 1000 hours on a boat is a ton and 40000 hours is a common rating for LEDs.

 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 6:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Some of the pictures on your website are pretty amazing.
 
By tj (tj_in_kc) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 7:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
um no kidding. those pics on the shadow-caster sight are amazing!

have you ever had snakes or other animals coming up to the boat while you have these lights on? I thought it would be neat to do some night swimming, but i think i heard snakes are attracted to light? isn't that how these underwater lights got started or attract fish for fishing or something?

just curious on anyones experience with these lights...i don't have lights, but i've always been curious about them, and i think they look awesome.

 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 10:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
When I bought the Malibu LEDs I thought it would be cool for night swimming too. I've never seen snakes in my transom lights. But I've seen 12 or 15 fish back there at one time! And not many people are into swimming with them!
 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 11:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Attract Fish? Why whatever do you mean?


<img src="http://www.abysslite.com/images/Photo-00124.jpg">


(Message edited by Tanner on March 24, 2009)

 
By David "Pootie Tang" (colombiansurfer) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 1:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
G - Check out H2O Lights. www.h2olights.com
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 1:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Maybe he's lookin for a trouser snake?

I haven't found any of those.... but I haven't been lookin either.

 
By freakytikki (freakytikki) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 7:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Any Chance of a group buy on shadow-casters? I will monitor thread for test results.
Can people show install pictures. Looking for ideas for this summers night life. Inside hull pics would be great.

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 7:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Freakytikki,

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8794

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 8:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
David: I sent h20 lights a e-mail. Thanks
 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 9:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Blah.... nvm. I must suck at html.

HereUpload

 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 12:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Freakytikki,

I sell the Shadow-Casters, send me a PM if you have any question.

 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 1:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
$600 each.... OUCH....
 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 1:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
i'm wondering if i could get away with just one X8000 on my skinny boat. if the access is there that is. probably need two i suppose. is the testing scheduled yet?
 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 9:25 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Talked to G yesterday, we bounced some ideas.

Here is my current plan:

The test will be done in two parts, the first will be the dry test. In a dark garage we will set up a measurement grid and take measurements at a fixed distance at a few different polar coordinates taking min/max illuminance recordings. This will help us determine max brightness at a hotspot and min brightness at a coldspot, beam uniformity, and beam angle. All units will be run through the same exercise, allowed to reach full brightness and done quickly so they do not overheat. The power will come from a fixed voltage source.

The next part will be the wet test. We will set up a digital SLR camera with a fixed aperature, exposure, and focus. We will take a series of pictures while the light shines underwater on a distance measurement tool (maybe a knotted rope?). The pictures will not be cropped or enhanced so you should be able to see how the lights perform in consistent conditions.

This is not a lab but it should deliver a good real world comparison results.

 
By Jeff (www.shadow-caster.com) (jfpound) on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 9:00 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mike,
The test sounds good. FYI you can run our lights as long as you want out of the water they will not hurt themselves. They will however turn off when they reach max temperature and back on when they cool down a couple degrees. The time it takes for that to happen will vary greatly depending on what they're mounted to. Spray them with water if you want to cool them off.

Please take this as a WARNING, do not look directly at the Shadow-Casters. When you turn one on you'll figure out pretty quickly that this is a bad idea and will understand where our "sunglasses at night" slogan came from. Please wear sunglasses during the garage testing, no, I'm not joking.

Also... I saw in another post that someone said underwater lights did not help get girls into the water. Well i'm sure the temperature has a lot to do with it but I have some proof that adequate light DOES help. This would not happen in dark water. No that's not me but the pic is taken behind my boat in some pretty cloudy water. How much is that worth? ;-)

Upload

Jeff
www.shadow-caster.com

 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 1:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hot, ^^^ Now i just don't need a large mouth bass or gar grabbin' my winky. hahaha
 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 5:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff - That may just be the best underwater LED advertisement I have ever seen. :-)
 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 5:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
$600 holy christmas Who has that much dough
 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Thursday, April 02, 2009 - 9:39 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
any updates or a guestimate on the test date(s)?
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 10:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bruce and everybody else. We are planning on doing the test Next weekend. April 11th. We are STILL waiting on all the lights the A6 came in yesterday. Here are some picks of it.
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

(Message edited by grant_west on April 04, 2009)

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 10:19 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
This light seem's to be a well built plastic light weight light. Seems like it work well for people with not alot of room to mount larger transom underwater LED's.
Andreas was nice enough to lend us his light meter.

 
By jason baggett (jasonba1) on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 11:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey grant have you gotten the ones from overseas yet??
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 12:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
No, those lights well be here on wednesday!
 
By jason baggett (jasonba1) on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 1:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Good deal thank robert
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 8:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I got the Shadow Casters in this weekend. Here are a few picks of them. They seem very well built. The test is set up for this weekend. I cant wait to see how they all perform. So if you have lights that you want included in the test you have until Friday to get them to me. So far we have Shadow Caster SC-10 in white and blue. Ocean LED A6 in white and blue.
Bullet Lines X-6000 and X-8000 in white.
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 1:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just a reminder the underwater lite test is this weekend.
Good New's David @ Earmark talked to Johan from Abyss. Johan called and is sending 3 lites Overnight for the test. Awesome!

 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 1:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I hope you're gonna start a new thread for this that doesn't have all the useless bickering (that I've also contributed to) in it. In the last few posts there are pics of the lights, but it would help to have the picture, the price, and the brand/model, all together instead of having to sift through all the posts here.

I'm sure you'll remember that I'm from KY, so I don't have all my teeth, can't adjust my eq with the correct hand, and can't read fer edited by jonyb on April 09, 2009)

 
By Todd Goin (tgoin) on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 5:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Question: do you have one or two or of the
shadow-casters?

It appears on the shadow-caster web site for these, there are
always 2 on the boats in the photos.

@ $600/each that's a lot of cash for the awesome
lights.

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 6:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
John: LOL
Todd: This weeeknd we will see. Mabey you will ony need one. I have what I think is all the lights for the test. No word on Robert's Baller on a Budjet lights as of yett.

This is what I have so far.
Abyss: s600,s800,1200,1515 all in White
Bullet 6000,8000 in White
Shadow caster SC10 in White and Blue
Ocean LED A6 in Blue.
Upload
Super stoked to do the test and show everyone the picks

 
By Todd Goin (tgoin) on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 6:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks, "G" --- so you do have 2 Shadow-casters,
what you gonna do? one at a time, or both?

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 6:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Todd: All the lights will be tested one at a time.
And yes I have 2 SC10's 1 White and One Blue.

 
By Rod (rvh3) on Friday, April 10, 2009 - 7:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
C'mon, lets go!
 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 10:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
C'mon "G" Get us the test already
 
By Harold (wikd281) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 4:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
And the winner is........?
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 5:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ Shadow-Caster!
 
By Brett Treiber (pc_sledge) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 6:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
This must be one of the most anticipated threads in a really long time.
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 6:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
He's making sure all the bidding for the payoff from the manufactures is done before he posts the details... Of course the winner always goes to the highest payoff...
 
By Jeff (www.shadow-caster.com) (jfpound) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 6:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sam... that's just not nice at all. :-(
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 7:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm sure G knows I'm joking.
 
By Jon Hunter (hunter660) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 4:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Interested to see the results.
 
By michaelspsp (michaelspsp) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 4:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
and the winner is....????
 
By Todd Goin (tgoin) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 5:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Guys -- it was Easter, give him a break.
 
By David Williams (wakeworld) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 10:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah, not cool even to "jokingly" damage someone's character in front of thousands of people.
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 11:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By David Williams (wakeworld) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 10:51 am:

Yeah, not cool even to "jokingly" damage someone's character in front of thousands of people.




Get real, it's clearly a joke. I give G a hard time all the time, it's clear that he does great work and is pretty anal about the quality of work that he shows us. He gives me a hard time in return.

Hey G,
I'm terribly sorry if I damaged your integrity or honor. I didn't realize that your integrity and honor was so easily damaged.

 
By plhorn (plhorn) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 11:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I didn't know that G had integrity and honor?!?! :-)
 
By Scott Legge (w00taz) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
along with honor and integrity he's noble and courageous. maybe we should get him knighted.
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Knighted, he should be!

(Message edited by wakeboardsam on April 13, 2009)

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
So are Bullet lines LED's the exact same as Abyss??
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:53 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:45 pm:

So are Bullet lines LED's the exact same as Abyss??



Oh man! Not this again!


Bullet Lines LED Thread

 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 12:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
sigh....
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 2:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I didn't look close enough, I thought the 6 abyss boxes where the abyss lights and the bullet lines ones.... in the same exact boxes... just took some squinting to see that the Abyss boxes were only the abyss ones listed.

I remember that thread and would have been amazed if they used the same boxes and everything.

NM.

 
By David_E_M (david_e_m) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 2:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
We have the Bullet Lines LEDs side by side with the Abyss and they are completely different. Different housing. Different LEDs.

Before anyone asks, I've tested them both and I know which one is brighter but I will not tell. You'll have to wait for the test results.

Sam, the Bazooka PA works without issue.

David
Earmark Marine

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 2:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks David! BTW, you are clearly an honorable person with integrity also... What size of armor do you wear?
 
By Scott Legge (w00taz) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 4:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
yea courageous and valiant as well. knighted indeed.
 
By claysoundillusions (sound_illusions) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 8:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey I just got off the phone with Grant he will be home tomorrow to post up the results.
 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 8:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sweet, Awesome to hear!!!!
 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 12:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
today is tomorrow....where is the results? We want to all know.
 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 12:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I haven't felt this let down since I was turned down for the prom...
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 1:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey there. We did the test Sat night. Mike was supposed to take all the photos but his wife went in to labor early and he was busy becoming a Dad and couldnt make it out. Congrats to Mike, Father of Twin Boy's.

I was super stoked to do the test and decide to go ahead and to anyways. I decoverd that getting shots is way harder than thought. We found out that shooting the light into open water
(with nothing around) give you know idea how far or how large the beam pattern is. You need something in the picture to give you a idea how large/small the light beam is. Something like a dock or a boat in the water can help you figure out what youre looking at as far as beam pattern.
We also found that the test area should be lit ever so slightly again to give you a idea what your looking at.
The photos we took did not relate what our eye's saw. Some lights were brighter than other and the photos didnt really show that. Thats when we knew we were doing something wrong. Im sorry but Im not going to post my picks from our test. Im going to get Mike out to take the Pro Pick's this weekend. Sorry but I want the photos to show what we saw with our eye's our picks didnt do that. What I can and will share with you is a look @ the set up. How the lights were mounted and tested.

I took a measurement of the back of my boat. I also did one of Andreas and Berns X30 to get a idea how deep the lights sit in the water. We came up with about 14 inches some boats sit deeper than others but 14 inches was a number in somewhere in the middle. We measured the dock where the test would be done and made it so the lights sat in the water at around 14inches. The boards with the lights were mounted to the dock. Each board was mounted to the dock in the same location and the test was done. We used a regulated 12v power supply to measure voltage and amp's. Here are some picks of the set up.

Upload
Upload
Upload

 
By plhorn (plhorn) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 1:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
'G' you tease!!!
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 2:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
As far as general appearance goes I like the Shadow Caster units. I would mount them on the transom of my boat.

(Message edited by wakeboardsam on April 14, 2009)

 
By richard holmgren (gundogg) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 2:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
grant's a tease! You sure can build up the suspense.
 
By Richard Coop (mendo247) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 3:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dang dude! Youve got some work into this! Much appreciated...
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 3:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
When will the actual results be shown?
 
By William (kana12) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 3:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
if i wanna do a test u think i could get some freebie lights. lol
 
By rodney (azwakekid) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 3:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
i dont think the lights are free. i think he is sending them back when he is done with the test. and he said he was going to buy the lights that work the best.
 
By Rod (rvh3) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 5:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant does not mess around! Thanks for the effort we are all relying on.
 
By the right kind (the_right_kind) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 7:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks for you efforts G. Can't wait to see the results as I'm thinking of installing transom lights soon.

Sam, I like the looks of the Shadow Casters too but they look like a pain in the arse to clean.

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 7:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
How dare his wife go into labor when we're all here waiting! He should have hog tied her legs together and kept those little suckers in! LOL.

And shame on you G, for being such a CT with those teaser photos!

You will only be forgiven once the real stuff is revealed.

Ok, so I kid I kid!

Congrats Mike. And thanks for the labor Grant!

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 7:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dude, it's not even cool to "kid" around with G, he's been knighted after all.
 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 8:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I can't imagine anything will out do the Abyss 1515's those are huge and over 1600 lumens.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 9:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
LOL at some of this stuff here, Yea the lights are not free. They are on loan with my credit card #'s to make sure they make it where they came from.
Like I said sorry. I don't wanna post my picks. Im not trying to teaze. My picks just didn't show what my eye's saw. It would be worthless to do all the work leading up to the test and then show you picks that all looked some what the same. I know when Mike takes his picks they will show the true results. The results will be worth the wait.

"Sir Bling Alot"

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 9:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yep they look pretty massive, but yet those 1600 lumens look pathetic next to the 2000+ of the Shadow Casters.

Guess we'll see though!

Apparently it's not cool to kid w/ others on here either sam!

 
By salty87 (salty87) on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 7:25 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
have you tried shining them on a target? something with a regular pattern...even a bullseye would probably work but it has alot of black on it. at a couple of different distances, might show better on pics.

(Message edited by salty87 on April 15, 2009)

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 8:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yea some lights look pretty bright out of the water and might have massive Lumens. If it translates into a brighter light in the water Im all for it.
We have a light meter and Mike wanted to do some light meter readings with a grid in the garage. I guess a good thing about not getting the test done is we have a few more days for other lights to show up. The baller on a budget lights never showed up. Maybe they will this week. One thing I can say about all the lights is they all seem very well built. The Ocean LED A6 is a lightweight weight version of all the lights in the test. It was the only light that didn't seem Overbuilt. Not like that's a bad thing. It was just strange to pick up even the smallest light in the test (Abyss 600) that weighed almost twice as much as you would think it would. I would have no problem using any of the lights in the test. One thing I did notice. Whatever lights you pick you need a few of them. IMO @ least 2. The way I like things to be lit up I could see using 4 no problem. Our lake is pretty clear. And I was surprised @ how much the water blocked the light. It's no where as clear as the water in FL or the key's (where most lights are made) IMO if your expecting to put one or 2 of these lights on your boat and expect it to look like most of the pictures you see on line your going to be disappointed. This seems like a project where more is better If Mike breaks away
We should have pictures up by Monday @ the latest.

 
By Clint Barton (cb1974) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 11:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am using 2 abyss s-800 LED's on my Supra 22SSV. We have pretty clear water in our lake, so i do get a really good stretch of light. I have linked to some pictures below.


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/texastechrox/SN850950.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/texastechrox/SN850938.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/texastechrox/SN850936.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/texastechrox/SN850933.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/texastechrox/led1.jpg

 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 11:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am especially eager since I have a pair of Abyss S-600's sitting in the garage...waiting to be installed or sold for an alternative light.
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 5:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Guess what guys? Grant's got a suprise for all of you! lol
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 5:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yea Robert big thanks for getting me the lights.
"Baller On A Budget" in Da House. Im gonna include these lights with the rest of the lights we re-test this weekend.

The large light looks EXACTLY like the Bullet light. IMO it's the Exact same light as the X8000.
Even the packaging and the ballast are all the same.
I haven't seen the smaller Bullet X6000 LED in person. How does it look compared to the one in the picture?
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

 
By Ian Ashton (ian_ashton) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 5:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Where are those sold, and what is the cost?
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The "Baller On A Budget" lights are the ones we're working on getting in a WakeWorld members group buy. We're getting them direct from China. The cost on the big lights is $195 the middle light is $75 and the smallest light is $52. There well be shipping on these lights which we'll split between everybody that wants them. After the test results we'll do a big group buy. We wanted to see how they compared to all the other lights first to see what lights to order or if these are truely the best lights to get for the price. Thanks Grant for including these lights in the re-test.
 
By Rod (rvh3) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'll bet you can get them from Robert. I'd like to inquire about a pair.
 
By Rod (rvh3) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ooops, he beat me too it.
 
By jason baggett (jasonba1) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
robert I have talked to you a few times i cant wait for the group buy glad to see you got them in. Count me in whenver you order. My email address is jbaggett@tnrmt.com if you need anything from me. I appreciate you doing this
 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant - are you doing it again tomorrow or Saturday? I'm going to on the lake tomorrow, would love to stop by and watch. Let me know.

T

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 7:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Trevor: I wanted to watch the UFC fight Sat night so Friday night will work. i wanted to try it just as it gets dark
 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 8:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant - if you don't mind me floating by...I'd like to stop in and check it out.

See you then.

Thanks

T

 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 8:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
btw - is your boat in the water? Otherwise, not sure I can find your dock...but I'll see the light I am sure!

T

 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 8:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I wanted to watch the UFC fight Sat night so Friday night will work. i wanted to try it just as it gets dark


DVR that you'll only waste 20 minutes of your life instead of 4 hours.

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 6:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Trevor: I pull my boat out each night so good luck finding it on the lake, LOL But yea it would be great to hook up Im sure I could use your help give me a buzz.
John: Yea Im with u on that tip. It's not at my place. I feel kinda rude showing up and telling the person that payed $50 to get it to "Fast Forward" that Beeeotch to the main event and than say Thank's and taking off LOL

 
By wakemann (wakemann) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey G I believe Mikeski has a set of X6000 so he would know first hand. But from the pic you posted the look exactly the same. Depending on the results you get I looking at getting the larger ones from Robert.
 
By John Gardner (roverjohn) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:21 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ken has to be at least a little peeved seeing this.
I'm guessing they wont be $369 in a few weeks after all.


/who cares?

(Message edited by roverjohn on April 17, 2009)

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I already bet my remaining testicle that they were the same...

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/679239.html

 
By Ken Land (bulletlines) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I would'nt get hopes up of Robert being able to get more. I actually would be very surprised if Robert gets anymore LEDs. I said from the beggining that his contact had a few samples, but he would not be able to get any significant quantity, it would be a 1 time deal for him..

From what I hear Robert; you received 6 of the 3w, 6 of the 18w, and 4 of the 6w. Good luck with that....

Regards,

Ken

(Message edited by bulletlines on April 17, 2009)

(Message edited by bulletlines on April 17, 2009)

 
By gangstar (joe_crawley) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 11:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Insert eating popcorn image here
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 11:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sorry Ken thats not what I recieved and the contact you have is not the one I ordered it from because we didn't want you starting any drama. Even though you tried, you do that on your own anyways so it doesn't matter. Lets just say the order I recieved was so large its more then the lights you get in a year. Pretty hard to get someone to remain exclusive on a light you ordered off the shelf. You told the manafacture that makes the abyss light just change the housing color and bam there's your specially engineered light. I have talked directly with the factory and they well change the housing color and ship them factory direct to me too! Don't worry we're not planning on flooding the market or selling them online we're just trying to hook up some WakeWorld members. After we've done the group buy here, the lights are all yours to sell exclusively to all the other forums and where ever else you choose to market them. I thought you where stopping the lights from coming here? Didn't you say you contacted customs and they where going to refuse the shipment and send it back? Why don't you sell the lights for the same price we can get them to all the WakeWorld members as a one time deal just to get the lights on the lakes? If you did that I'd order the lights from YOU and tell everyone that asked to contact YOU for future purchases. Seems to me word of mouth would be great advertising.
 
By Ken Land (bulletlines) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 11:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Robert,

Start telling the truth... I know for a fact what you received, as I was sent a copy of the Bill of Laden. Also, I never said I would contact customs.. At first I thought the housings were a copy of a patented housing: which I then said the manufacturer who holds the patent could contact U.S. customs to confiscate the shipment. I did offer a group buy for this forum last fall

I'm not going to argue with you, nor respond anymore about this. If by some unknown circumstance you are able to get more, thats fine: in return I get to cancel my exclusivity contract (which is a huge weight). Either way I win.

Regards,

Ken

 
By TQ (motogod77) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 11:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I buy our lights from Ken and have had nothing but good customer service, they arrive in a few days at a good deal and my customers are happy with them. They look good - they work good everyone is happy. Thanks Ken.

And back to the post are we ever going to get any results?

2007 Supreme V232 with Bullet Lines red LED's and FAE.



Upload

 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 12:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Congrats on being able to cancel your exclusivity contract glad we could help remove that weight for you. You are way off on the quanity you haven't a clue. They must of lied to you or something because they weren't even ordered in my name so you couldn't of seen a copy of the Bill of Laden. Or if you saw one it wasn't from my order. I tried offering a solution for you to help meet your order obligations, make alot of new happy customers, and garner alot of word of mouth advertising and you respond by calling me a liar and saying you already offered it last fall. Ken I have no desire to get in a pissing contest with you. I'm not making a penny doing this just helping organize this for everybody else. As it stands I've lost money as I ordered lights nobody wanted just so Grant could do the test with them. You wouldn't be interested in buying them by any chance?
 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 12:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sounds like everyone has the same lights... Why not cut your profit margin down and duke it out based on quantity (and number your able to sell). These lights are now a commodity and the person that will get my business will have the right combination of advertising, branding, and price.

Free market always prevails - and when your working with the chinese, exclusives mean good example of all of this? Wetsounds. I could probably find a wetsounds knockoff, but Tim White is so highly regarded in this niche that I feel obligated to buy his product cause I want people to know i'm running 'wetsounds'... Why? A core group of hardcore boarders (wakeworld) has basically said they are the best... word of mouth advertising.


maybe i'm wrong, but i sell a commodity product in "real life" so I know that the more i sell, better deal i can get from suppliers, etc...

 
By Jon Hunter (hunter660) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 3:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Anyone read the topic of this post? If you want to argue, go some place else. I'm interested in the results myself, not who has the biggest stick.
 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 4:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
TQ,

Could you get us some pics of the red in the water anytime soon please?

No one has any pics of that color, and I can't get Ken to respond on Tigeowners. :-(

 
By tailgate (tailgate) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 5:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
G, as part of the writeup, could you include some detailed pics of each light... with dimensions (pic with ruler), I'm not sure if some might fit on my boat due to shape and size.

Thanks

 
By jeff (jdaydoc) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 6:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
tanner-

pics of red lights underwater on planetnautique . . . underwater light thread page 6. for some reason I'm having difficulty linking the pic.

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 6:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sweet, thanks Jeff!!!! I've looked everywhere for a pic of red.

That's about how I thought it would look! Perfect!

(Message edited by Tanner on April 17, 2009)

 
By tige rider (mtnsmith) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 6:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tailgate, good idea on maybe posting a pic with a small t-square for reference csi style. I did not go to any great lengths to look at what the transom on your moomba looks like but the transom on my Tige 22v is somewhat odd as well and so I had to mount my shadow-casters at an angle. I thought they looked angry at first but most everyone else thought they looked cool out of the water. The set in the shot attached are an r&d set as I know the builders and did some testing for them. The shadow-caster website also has shots of my boat in the water with the lights on like the onther one I posted. Most of the round lights seem like they should mount with no problems though.

I also posted the pics from planet nautique with the red lights, neat looking, just don't light up as well as the other colors.
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 8:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mtn,

As your boys found out, the water soaks up alottttt of the red spectrum. Which is probably why more companies don't offer red.

The thing is there's alot of us that are going more for mood lighting, and just a glow around our boats, than trying to light the entire lake up! LOL

Now if your boys wanna sell me their red prototypes I'm up for that ;)

 
By tailgate (tailgate) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 9:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here is a shot of my Moomba LSV transom, so looks like some of those bigger lights wont work?

Upload

 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm going to mirror the bottom of my swim platform.
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 4:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I believe the Shadow-Casters will fit perfect!Upload
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 4:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I believe the Shadow-Casters will fit perfect!

Upload

(Message edited by chpthril on April 18, 2009)

 
By chris (atlmobiuslsv) on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 4:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
unfortunatley the area is curved.. the abyss s600 will fit i have two on the outside and an s800 in the middle... looks great
 
By Patrick Meyer (pmeyer01) on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 8:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Can't wait to see how the test turns out.
Depending on which ones have the farthest range,
I'm in for a few of these on the China Bulk Purchase deal, maybe 5 of them for my Mastercraft and my 35' Luhrs.

 
By Tim Anderson (torquejr) on Saturday, April 18, 2009 - 9:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
So which of these light would look best on a 2008 mastercraft x45- and is the best
 
By Paul Nichols (pnichols) on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 8:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
And the results are?
 
By the right kind (the_right_kind) on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 10:39 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I found this test done in a swimming pool with some of the lights mentioned.

http://www.yachtlights.com/gallery/album19

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 1:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Can any of you guys help me with my S-BEND?
 
By tj (tj_in_kc) on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 1:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hmmm, nice link. maybe they should think about testing in a pool instead of the lake. sure is easy to judge between the lights in that link. have a clear border too with the far edge of the pool, if they posted the length and width of the pool it would give good reference.
 
By andrew taft (taft) on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 4:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Awesome link Right Kind, some of those lights they tested are super bright.
 
By Razzman (razzman) on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 2:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok so i'm assuming that everyone fell off of the dock the other night and drowned 'cause non of the lights were bright enough and that's why no updates? Or better yet the otters got 'em all?
 
By KEVIN (kko13) on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 3:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think they jacked a bunch of free lights Wish i would of thought of it first!!!












J/K but dam come on with some results already

 
By Andy G. (ottog1979) on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 3:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
This tension is almost as good as the home-made wakeboard thread.
 
By jason baggett (jasonba1) on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 5:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am with Robert I know for a fact he can order more lights.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 7:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Im sorry to report no pictures. Mike called Sat afternoon and said he couldn't make it up. As let down as I was I understand. He had his hands full with the 1-week-old newborn twins right now. I got a friend at the lake that will take the picks for me this weekend and is solid. I even have a back up plan if some how he falls threw. I will get photos this weekend no matter what! (WEATHER PERMITTING) it's supposed to rain Friday night but Sat is supposed to be good. Im sorry I feel like a Jack A$$ for not coming threw 2 weeks in a row. When I say Im going to do something I don't like letting people down. I have seen the test above and my goal was to have way better pictures/results in our test. So again please stand by Ill get it handled. If anyone that's real good with a camera and night picks want's to come down and take the picture's Ill take you up on it, feed you dinner and beer's and even throw in some cash$ I have a place for you to stay ect so I can make it worth your while.
Thanks G"

 
By Michael Hunter (mhunter) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 8:01 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
G
I appreciate you going through all this just so
I can make a better informed decision. If it takes more time to get it right so be it.
Thanks for doing this at all

 
By John Gardner (roverjohn) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 8:44 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
G, just a suggestion but if you could get pictures of the water you'll be testing in so we have some idea of the turbidity it would be nice. A close up picture in daylight of a quart jar full of lake water would be nice. The pool test is a little misleading as water is never that clear in nature.
 
By Johnny Neves (johnny_jr) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 8:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
G call Brian in Modesto he may be willing to head up if he has the weekend free. He's good with pics and doesn't drink beer (makes for better pics)
 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 9:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I don't think that test is very good at all. The water is crystal clear and it's bright blue with the white LEDs.
 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 9:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you're a Malibu owner for the price these simply can't be beat if you compare the lumen vs $. Only downside is they only come in white.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1301

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on April 21, 2009)

 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 9:59 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Those light look nice nu bu to bad they only come in white!
 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 10:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm working on that though....
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 11:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Drain Plug Lights!

For idiots like me that can't drill a hole...

LAMP: 50 Watt Halogen
POWER SUPPLY: 12 / 24 volt
BEAM ANGLE: 30 degrees
LUMEN: 1700
AMPS: 4.16 / 2.08
CORD LENGTH: 5 feet

1,700 Lumens, that's a lot!


Upload

 
By David_E_M (david_e_m) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 12:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
tailgate,

We can install ABYSS 600 underwater lights on the outside lower area of a Moomba transom. We use KingStarboard white contour blocks to correct for the radiused surface and to correct for the downward angle. Works perfect.

David
Earmark Marine

 
By J. Brenner (bjeremi) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 12:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Damn that drain plug light must me bright!
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 12:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
And draw a lot of power too. At 50 watts it's almost as much as a headlight. I see they have an LED version too.

The nice thing about LEDs is they draw very little power. After riding all day the batteries are supposedly all charged up. We can easily sit around with the tunes & LEDs on for a couple of hours before we have to start the boat again.

 
By Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 1:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The drain plug led light might work great. I could splice it into my v-drive locker lights, and I wouldn't really have to wire anything!
 
By David B. (dabell) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 2:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ Unless you have a wakeplate below the drain plug hole. :-(
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 5:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'll let you all know now the drain plug light works... I just won my ebay auction for one at $75, including shipping! I bought the halogen, not the LED model.
 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 1:53 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hi all.

Sorry for dogging Grant and everybody on this test. My twin boys decided to arrive two weeks earlier than planned. They are now 12 days old and tonight is the first time I have been on WakeWorld since the doctor said "you are going straight to Labor and Delivery" during our prenatal checkup which revealed one of the boys had stopped growing. About 6 hours after I heard that, while sleeping in the labor room, we were hastily awakened by a team of doctors/nurses when the little guy's heart stopped beating during labor. Luckily it was only a couple minutes but they decided to go in and get them at that point. The little guy was 4lb 1oz, but he came out looking mean and screaming. After a week in the ICU he was able to stabilize enough to come home with us. Today the boys and mom are doing well.

Obviously with two preemie babies with special needs at home two weeks before relatives or the nanny are available I am not getting much done besides diaper changes and bottle feedings. It takes about 30 minutes each for these little guys to eat, then burping, diapers. If all goes well I get a 1-1.5 hour break then it starts over again. If one of them is fussy there is no break. They tend to be more fussy at night. I actually can't believe I am getting through this post before one of the starts screaming for something.

They sure are cute though. Quite a rewarding experience all told.

Sorry I didn't get LED pix but here are some baby pix from their first bath LOL.

Upload
Upload

(Message edited by mikeski on April 23, 2009)

 
By michaelspsp (michaelspsp) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 4:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Congratulations! I had a similar situation 11 years ago with the birth of my daughter and the heart almost stopping. that certainly gets your attention doesn't it?! you get a pass for no LED pics hands down. best wishes!
 
By C-Dub (cwfunrider) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 6:29 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Congrats. My twins are almost 3 now. Enjoy. (BTW I wish we could have had a nanny)
 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Great story Mike and glad everything turned out ok. Congrats on the new additions..
 
By Cory McLean (kikitlo) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Congratulations Mike. I can understand what you were going through. My wife is a Labor and delivery nurse so I am inundated with delivery stories left and right. Just the other night she told me a story of how her patient delivered on the bathroom floor, or I hear the stories that don't have the happy ending so I am very glad to hear (read) that your little ones are home safe. Once again congrats.
 
By Greg "The Hammer" (leaks) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 7:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Congrats Mike!!! How big are they? My twins were 5.5 and 6.5 pounds. Full term. They are now 20 years old. WOW!!
 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 2:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
... fine, youre forgiven! Congrats. Thank god my wife doesnt read wakeworld - shes already itching bad enough for a youngin, pics like that on here are few and far between... hahah!
 
By KEVIN (kko13) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 5:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Congrats! hope all is well.
 
By Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 6:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I know these are hella ghetto. But what about underwater tap lights stuck to the transom or bottom of the swim deck? Here is a link. https://www.ledlighting1.com/OSRAM-SYLVANIA-DOT-IT-H2O-Black-Waterproof-LED-light-4021-prod.htm?category_id=1632
 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 11:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Greg,

The big guy was 5lb 8oz, the little guy was 4lb 1oz. Now they are 5lb 11oz and 4lb 6oz.

 
By Travis (wake_rookie) on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 11:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
This post is funny. I am interested in a group by for these lights if it happens.

Honestly I think it sucks if you find an item made in china for $5 and sell it for $50 here. Or maybe I hate it because I didn't find it first.... The customs comment was truly funny. I have never heard of a company saying you can't import an item from China due to copy right laws. If that was the case most pit bikes would never make it here. They are all knock offs, copies of Hondas or DRZs. China does not respect copy right laws, if it is made in China, there will be a knock off at some point. What are you going to do, sue them, take your product to someone else in China, oh how about bring it back to the USA and have it made here. Better stop there before I get going on the whole offshoring

 
By John Gardner (roverjohn) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 6:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
"I know these are hella ghetto. But what about underwater tap lights stuck to the transom or bottom of the swim deck? Here is a link. https://www.ledlighting1.com/OSRAM-SYLVANIA-DOT-IT-H2O-Black-Waterproof-LED-light-4021-prod.htm?category_id=1632"

I just got one of those free with some CFL's I bought. No way are they waterproof. No F'ing way. They are fun little lights though and they fit in your pocket nicely. Zero brightmess too so unless you're in gin clear water, in a cave, you're not going to see them.

 
By Ian Ashton (ian_ashton) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 9:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Any chance of starting a new thread with the results? This thread is huuuuuuuuuuuuuge.
 
By John Gardner (roverjohn) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 9:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ian, Get a T1. It loaded for me in about 2 seconds.
 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 12:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
for real - the images are redonkulous.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 12:53 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yea ill start a New thread when I get all the Pictures. Hey I was thinking if someone could build a website that had all the underwater pictures in the test. A user could pick 2 diffrent lights and have the images sid by side or overlapping or flashed back and forth between the 2. Any Idea's
 
By dj (dizzyj) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 12:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
fyi, the red lights are my boat, and the pictures dont do the lights justice. I took it with my cell phone. They project quite a bit farther than that in real life

oh, and 190 posts over transom led's? wow...

 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 3:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
G: i can do it if you send me the pics. I got a site to put it on...
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 11:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just got back form the lake. We shot the picks and they came out great. Ill be out all day Monday and when I get back I can start working on putting a gallery together.

Clayton: What can you do with the pick's
I had a total of 14 lights for the test. Im pretty happy with the pictures. I haven't seen them on a computer yet only from my friends cammera.

 
By clayton191 (clayton191) on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 5:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Whatever you wanna do - if they are the same angle we can try and layer them to show it off.... or we can do the flash back and forth between the two ... let me know i can throw it together pretty fast once i get the pictures...
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 6:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok cool. I should have the pictures today. Ill send them to ya when I get back.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 5:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok, Good news bad news. First the bad News. I don't have anything to share with you. After showing my pictures to the experts they all agree the cameras settings were not set equal for each shot some how my camera man got it wrong. The white balance and the exposure were different for each picture. The result is the photos are again not completely accurate. I have talked with Walt and got some tips for taking more accurate picture's and plan to re shoot the photos in the next week.
Its way frustrating. I have sent so much time and Im sorry I don't have anything real good to show for it. Please stand by for the results. Ok to the good newss I got a New set of light to include in the test Teq-Nik lights was nice enough to send me 2 lights sorry but they are the same 2 lights they are no different from each so Its more like I have 1 new light to test but never the less it's another light that will be included in the test so that good for you. Here are some pictures of the new lights and the Test boards Im using.
Upload
Upload
Upload

OOOO and one last supprise. This light turned out to be a RGB led yup that's right Red Blue Green LED underwater light
Upload
the LED in the center are WHITE
and the lights around the ring are Red and Blue

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 6:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant are you sure you don't have two X chromosomes instead of a X & Y. You are turning into the biggest CT ever!
 
By Mike H. (mim3) on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 6:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Camera should be in "program" mode to maintain constant settings, tripod would help, someone else suggested a pool (that would help with consistency).

What about shooting some video from a fixed point?

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 7:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yea I will do a video along with taking pick's
a pool is a good idea but IMO dosen't give you a good Idea how far a light will shine under normal Lake conditions. Not every ones lake looks like a pool.

 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 7:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
You can use my pool, it is 40ftx20ftx9ft.

Black Bottom for what that is worth

T

(Message edited by trevorg7 on April 28, 2009)

 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 7:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Oh and for the record, this is in the backyard next to the pool!

T
Upload

 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Please do not use a pool, that is totally 100% artificial color and I have NEVER ever seen a lake look like that.

I would suggest using only average clarity water which would be the median for most people. Else we would need to see some shots in very clean water and then a comparison to darker water.

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Trevor: Thanks for the offer but I agree with WakeMikey and everyone else. IMO The pool dosen't translate to real world conditions. The light test that was done in the pool in the link above didnt look to good. I saw a light in that test that's not very bright light up the whole pool. I think it will give people a false sence of what's going on.

A cool piece of photo triva. Walt was able to look at the pictures we took. He had a program the could extract the cammera settings for each photo. He could tell the white balance and the exp rate for each photo. Our test photo's were not taking with all the same settings. That's why the results are not posted. The photo's are again not fair. Tip: Never agree to do somthing that you cant do 100% yourself.
Up side Im learning more about how and how not to take photo's @ night

 
By Ryan Bush (ryanbush11) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 7:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
my question is how do thet lights that came from the factory on my 08 malibu compare to the ones you are testing
 
By Edgar Ramon (jame04) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ I have the same question about my 08 MC X15. Can I just replace it with one of these?
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 12:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have the 6 LEDs that came stock on Malibus in 07 & 08. Their rated at 720 lumens each. I'd love to see them compared to the rest too. But someone will probably have to show up at the test with these factory LEDs on their boat.

FYI, Malibu now sells a 9 LED light rated at 1080 lumens. And they sold a halogen light back in 2005 - 2006 that was maybe 1/2 the intensity of the 6 LED light.

I think those that already have LEDs on the boats are going to need to use your imagination, based on the lumens rating, to see if you're going to upgrade.

 
By tom fischer (tomfish) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
OK, how bout just telling us which one was brighter and for the money which one you would buy. I don't need to see photo's. Just give us your true opinion man. Like the"so and so" was the brightest but cost double the next one down was almost as bright for half the money etc. That is what we want to hear.
 
By Ryan Bush (ryanbush11) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 2:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
any ideas how much the new ones from malibu are and are they the same color? i might need to add an extra set, i guess there is nothing wrong with having two sets?
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 3:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tom: How about NO.
Sorry for making everyone wait. I have alot of time and enery in this little test Im gonna get it right just wait. You can decide what's best for you from all the information out there. IMO there is a light in the test for everyone at every price. Some lights are not as bright but put a ok amout of light and are well priced. Some lights are light weight and entrey level that put out a good amout of light. Some are just what you would expect well built and a good amount of light. And some are over the top in quality and brightness. All the lights are diffrent in brightness and in color. Some of the white lights are PURE white and some are more yellow some are more blue. Like I said somthing for everyone. Even the 2 diffrent blue lights in the test were quite diffrent in blue color again another choice.

 
By Nate (mammoth) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 4:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Program mode on the camera is not going to do it for you. P mode is Programmed Auto, that means that the camera is going to do it's own metering for the correct exposure with every shot. As you change light sources the camera will try to adjust the exposure to stay in the middle.

G - Your best bet with the shots is going to be shooting manual, after you have an idea what will give an accurate exposure. I'll make a suggestion for the shoot method.

Set your ISO at 200, and make sure there is no auto white balance function turned on.

Take a shot with NONE of test lights in P mode and write down the aperture and ISO that the camera picked in order to get a good meter of the ambient light. I wouldn't worry much about nearby lights, in fact a little ambient light might help the camera meter and since your looking for relative light between each LED it won't hurt.

Switch the camera over to manual mode and set the aperture and shutter to the same values that worked for the lights-off reference photo.

Now you should be setup for proper fixed exposure using ambient light and the different lighting for each LED should be accurately captured.

<edit> I just noticed that you said Walt gave you some pointers. I'm sure that has you on the right track.

(Message edited by Mammoth on April 29, 2009)

 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 5:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I would just like to point out what I said in about post #20 in this thread:

"I know you probably know, but make sure the camera is not on any automatic settings or it will automatically tone down the brighter lights in pictures. In theory this 2000 lumen light is going to be huge compared to 720 or less. I would think you couldn't take the same picture with the same settings without it just turning into a bunch of light."

Now I feel like I am smart.

As I said, if you use the exact same settings on a bright and dim light, the bright will be all washed out and the dim will be hardly visible. Just my .02.

One other suggestion is to take the picture in RAW mode, then the adjustments can all be made from your computer to at least try and make the settings close to the same. My Rebel allows that.

 
By Patrick Meyer (pmeyer01) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 5:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If anyone is interested in seeing what the lights do in a clear salt water environment. I can take the samples about 50 miles out in the ocean and run the test and take pictures from my tuna tower. I'm not only interested in lights for my Mastercraft, but also as night-time fishing lights for my Luhrs boat.
Any interest in a test like that?

 
By the right kind (the_right_kind) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 6:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Patrick...We have the 12v xenon lights on our Cabo. I got these so I wouldn't have to run the generator but if I were to do it again I would go with the metal halide, they're the brightest and we run the genie anyway. All of the lights will attract fish. Last summer we were out 80+ miles at night and we had all kinds of bait and fish in the light, even a swordfish.
What I'm looking for is a LED light that is bright with low power draw that you don't need to drill a 2" hole in the transom to install. Also something that looks good not like another exhaust tip. My feeling is that if you want a brighter light add more of them or a couple big ones. JMO
Also something to consider is that some of these lights need to be in the water to stay cool. Some will turn off when overheated and when running on plane they will be out of the water. I like the fact that the Amphibian can be used out of the water. I don't know if the others can.

 
By Rod (rvh3) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 6:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant, I agree with Tom. We all respect your opinion, and if you just gave us a 1-10 based on price/performance, we could make a decision on which will fit our needs. Thanks for all of you effort, it is definately appreciated.
 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 8:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Oh my God. Tell us already, f th pictures son. Let us know who won. JK I still want pictures. Thanks for doing this for us guys.

Peace out.

 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 8:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm with G hold out until the pictures are right then release the results. G thanks for all the insane effort and diligence.
 
By David_E_M (david_e_m) on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 10:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Forget the specifications. There are vast differences in light intensity that absolutely contradict the specs.

If anyone lives in the Dallas area, come by our Lewisville marine showroom and see for yourself.

We have a display aquarium and several of the different lights in stock.

David
Earmark Marine

 
By Ryan Bush (ryanbush11) on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 10:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
dang, how big of an aquarium is that?
 
By Mike H. (mim3) on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 12:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am eager to see the results of this comparison!

I am holding off on my purchase until the pics are posted....hopefully this is soon!

A question to those who supplied the lights:

Will the vendors be offering a group discount to WW members?

Credit card is in hand!

 
By Joe Sellhausen (joesell) on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 2:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Grant, Is there any way you could also test a led brake light off a trailer? I know it's red, but I'd love to see how it compares. Expecially when they only cost $20. If you do it, can you hook it up on the brake light side. Should be twice as bright as the tail light.
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 2:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mike H,

I will on the Shadow-Casters.

 
By Jeff (www.shadow-caster.com) (jfpound) on Thursday, April 30, 2009 - 9:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
the right kind - FYI, Sounds like you're describing our product. Yes they need some water for cooling but after being dunked they'll run out of the water for quite a while. There is generally enough splash or spray to keep them happy. I've never had one turn off when on plane.

Amphibians can run dry forever and ours cannot. But compare the products in person. Unless you plan to go boating in your driveway the decision will be easy. IMHO :-)

Jeff
www.shadow-caster.com

 
By Mike H. (mim3) on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 10:11 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Is this dead?

What is the status of the WW group buy?

Any update?

 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 10:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ He's got about 8 lights represented in the test, is there a particular light you want to buy before the results are posted?

I've answered for the brand I rep, but no need to get the cart before the horse !

 
By Mike H. (mim3) on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 10:55 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I was hoping the results would be posted before I moved ahead with a purchase. But, this is taking some time and there is no guarantee that the results would sway my decision. There is a bit of information out in the marketplace now.

My timing is sooner rather than later.

TigeMike not sure if you have lights available now?

 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 11:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mike,

I understand you position, I'm anxious for the results as well!

Shadow-Casters are only a phone call away if you are interested. Send me a PM!

 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 11:54 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The group buy is still on for the baller on a budget lights we've just been waiting on Grants results to help with our decsion making.

Grant you out there?

Perhaps he got blinded my all the light and fell in the lake! lol Just kidding

 
By Rod (rvh3) on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 11:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That's what I'm talking about Robert.
 
By Peter M Wenzel (scanr) on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 5:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
This thread has been challenging with many twists and turns. Is it possible prior to results posting, to list the lights involved with either list pricing, available street pricing and special or GB pricing offered (if available) from the vendors. It appears that there are at least 2 or 3 pricing levels that no matter where the test results come out, each of us have a level in which we can afford. This pricing matrix would help us narrow down our choices NOW. I believe many of us want to buy ASAP before we put boats in the water. Anything to speed this process NOW would help.
Thanks

 
By "G" (grant_west) on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 7:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Peter that's a great idea. Im shooting the picks this weekend. But to make some forward progress it would be good to set up pricing so when the results are out you can pull the trigger ASAP.
In each of the photos I was gonna list all the information. Where to buy and cost. IMO if your in a hurry a Group buy is not the fastest way to get product. I will start a new thread with all the pick's

 
By Pete Wenzel (scanr) on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 9:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Copy of post on "theMalibuCrew"

Here is my 2 cents after reading and comparing 3 mid-priced swim lights. No actual experience, (and that is why it would be so nice if the guys at WW would actually post their results and opinions without waiting on publishing photos which can be very subjective). A lot of this comes down to "specsmanship". The current state of lumen measurement reminds me of stereos 30+ years ago. There is no current industry standard that mfgs. must adhere to in detailing the measurement of their light output. This is coupled with the mounting, spacing, reflector, no reflector, etc. Then you consider that most are assembled in China and many mfgs or distributors will tell you/publish whatever makes their product appear highly rated.

That being said, my analysis is restricted to Malibu OEM, Hong Kong import and Bullet 8000, and H20 lights. Not in depth - only MHO overview from data gathered from posts and web sites.

The pros and cons of the following appear to be:

Malibu OEM - Pros: Sold by www.Bakesonline.com who are great supporters of "the Crew" and provide excellent customer service and Malibu warranty. Published lumen output of 1080 = a cost of $0.158 per lumen using Crew Supporter discount (the current price per lumen winner) and no freight charges (over $100). Small design with flat back surface mount for easy install (small holes in hull).
Con: Only available in white. Not in WW test.

H2O lights 15 LED - Sold by http://h2olights.com/content/view/1/33/ Pros: White and Blue. Published lumen output (15 White LED model) of 1350. Blue LED only 270 lumens. Either color $289 = $0.214 per lumen White - $1.07 per lumen Blue. Smartsense circut to turn off lights after 3 hrs, a low voltage shutdown, and overheat sensor. Flat surface mount design for easy install (small holes in hull).
Con: Not included in current WW test! No special price to group announced. No instructs on web site on how to order? Freight? Some good comments on WW posts. Just received e-mail - can purchase direct at 888-745-6777 or eprelec@h2olights.com - Dealers can purchase from Gemeco Marine 843-210-7000

Bulletlines 8000 www.bulletlines.com and Hong Kong Group Buy - Pros: White and Blue. Published lumen output ranges from 660 - 720 (Hong Kong distributor web site) and Bullet website claims 750 lumens. WW Group Buy of direct Hong Kong import $195 = $0.27 per lumen (720) - Bulletlines $270 = $0.375 per lumen. Larger size could be a Pro or Con? Big reflectors may increase light output. Good review of apparent quality from WW. "Im pretty impressed with this light the thing weighs like 2 lbs and and feels like a nice piece of equipment. It looks very well made. The power draw is 1.13 Amp's Very Very low for how bright this light looks. It has a external power regulator and inline fuse."
Cons: Unknown freight cost (to be split by GB participants), who do you send back to for warranty issue or DOA? Does it matter? Or purchase from Bulletlines at higher price.
Back of light not flat http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/message...html?1239753762 appears to require larger hole. Requires power regulator box (supplied with unit).

 
By the right kind (the_right_kind) on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 7:55 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
"Baller on a budget"
I like that.
West Marine has these made by Attwood that sell for $100 a pair.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DisplayPageDynamicView?page=EndecaProductCompare&jspStoreDir=wm51&Ntt=underwater lights&keyword=undrwater lights&N=377 710&Ntk=Primary Search&Ntx=mode matchallpartial&self=1&itemId=366163&count=1&selIndx=3&isLTokenURL=true

 
By scooter (spherren) on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 8:19 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
faulty link

(Message edited by spherren on May 08, 2009)

 
By the right kind (the_right_kind) on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 10:01 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Try these, if they don't work check West Marine for underwater lights.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/349773/377%20710/0/underwater%20lights/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DisplayPageDynamicView?page=EndecaProductCompare&jspStoreDir=wm51&Ntt=underwater%20lights&keyword=underwater%20lights&N=377%20710&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&self=1&itemId=347162&count=0&selIndx=2&isLTokenURL=true

 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 10:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The "Baller on a Budget" lights are actually available in White, Blue, Yellow, Green, and Red.

The 720 lumens lights are $195 so $0.27 per lumen

The 400 lumens lights are $76 so $0.19 per lumen

The 200 lumens lights are $52 so $0.26 per lumen

Freight is unknown but well be split evenly amongest all the lights ordered and the more lights we order the lower shipping costs well be. I have ordered a few lights and haven't recieved any doa lights yet. I did have one shipment where one light was missing and sent them a email and 4 days later it was on my door step.

The 720 lumen light is the only light with an extenal regulator the 400 and 200 lumen light have built in regulators.

Just wanted to give you guys a little more info on the group buy lights. TTYL Robert

 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 10:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Did the lights fall into the lake along with the camera.
 
By jason baggett (jasonba1) on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 11:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey Robert are still waiting on the test before the group buy
 
By Mike Collins (xstreamws) on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 10:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Robert, Please let me know when the group buy is going to happen. I would like to but several...
 
By pete c (saceone) on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 7:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
[quote]By Mike Collins (xstreamws) on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 10:37 pm:

Robert, Please let me know when the group buy is going to happen. I would like to but several...
[/quote]
me too I'd love to but several but my gf said no.

 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 10:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ Just dont tell her
 
By Scott Legge (w00taz) on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 12:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ how I got your pro80's lmao!
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 10:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Pushing 2 months since this process started. So did it finally die? Or everyone just gave up?
 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 10:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you are still taking ideas for shots, I am interested in baller on a budget lights, but my river is pretty brown. Any chance we could see something in darker water? Or maybe kick up some sand on the bottom to simulate silty water? Kinda tough when every lake is a different color.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 12:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bill and everyone else: The test is not dead. I took picks this weekend. Im putting them together. You will have the results when Im done. Thanks for your patience.


Wake: Sorry I don't know what to tell ya. All the shots were taken with the same water clarity.

 
By AndY (andy13) on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 9:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
when you get the results could you start a new thread this one is kinda long to sift through
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Friday, May 15, 2009 - 1:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Any news? Any results? Any pictures?
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 3:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Do we need to send the Coast Guard out looking for Grant? Should be easy to find with all those lights in the water!

But seriously any news?

You've turned us all into addicts checking everyday trying to get our fix of underwater LED test results. lol

 
By plhorn (plhorn) on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 5:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I feel like I invited the town slut to prom paid 80 bucks for tux and still didn't get any action.
 
By "G" (grant_west) on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 6:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
OK here is the deal. The last round of pick's we took came out good but the camera was not set on manual. Result the photo's look'd real good and they look real close to what your Eye seas in person but we couldn't use them for the test. The reason we didn't use them is because the camera settings were not the same for each light.

The last set Mike took are very accurate and fair. The camera settings we all the same. What you see is what you get. But IMO you can't make a decision just one set of photo's. So Mike took the light's home and Shot photo's of them in his pool and used a light meter to take real world light measurements while the lights were lit in his pool. So the light test will have 3 sets of under waters shot's
1st set adjustable settings
2nd set manual settings
3rd set Shot in a pool with Lumens and lux numbers

Good news is all the underwater photos have been taken the only shot's remain are the up close shots of each light. And then it all needs to be put together. Sorry for the wait. It's allot of work and it has to be done correct. Robert Mitchell, Ken@Bullet Johan @ Abyss Ken@Shadowcasters, Ryan @ Chucktronics and the Guys at Tequnik all have been super cool and patent Thanks.

 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 6:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Before people start asking what lux number was associated to what LED I need to say that there is more to this than just numbers.

For example the less expensive Bullet lights actually measured more lux than the more expensive and visually brighter Bullet lights (same applies to a few of the others too). This has to do with the dispersion pattern of the light. The tightly focused and visually brighter LED did not reflect as much light back toward the light meter as the dimmer more diffuse light source. But that difference is not huge, I am talking 1.0 lux of reflected light versus 1.3 lux of reflected light when other significantly more expensive LEDs registered in the 5-9 lux range. So you really need to look at all the pictures and look at the numbers before you make your final decision. This is also the reason why I don't want to start posting bits and pieces of information, I would rather post all of the info and pictures so you can get the complete story at once.

I hope get my observations summarized and noted this evening. Grant has a few things to do as well. We might have something worthwhile posted as early as Thursday.

(Message edited by mikeski on May 19, 2009)

 
By Rod (rvh3) on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 7:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I need a pocket full of ones!
 
By Craig (yosquire) on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 9:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
> I need a pocket full of ones!


 
By Forrest (wazzy) on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I didn't bother reading this whole thread.... BUT I found this company in a magazine I get at work....

http://www.aqualuma.com/

 
By plhorn (plhorn) on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 2:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
bump!
 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 2:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I saw G on Saturday in a secret spot on Tulloch...not sure why he wasn't at the house loading photos on WW for us ;)

T

 
By jason baggett (jasonba1) on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 3:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Have I missed something or have the posted the results somewhere else
 
By Brannon (fullspeed) on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 9:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Can someone fill me in. .... Did we ever get an answer or is it posted somewhere else.
 
By Craig (yosquire) on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 6:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think Grant took the loot and skipped town. Grant's boat at 9000 lumen is now the only boat visible from the Space Station at night.
 
By Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 4:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Still waiting. I haven't heard anything in a week or two. I do believe all the photos and tests are done we're just waiting for them to finalize a interface that allows multiple lights to be viewed at the same time.
 
By chad hall (chall8143) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 10:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Time to kill this thread.
 
By patrick walters (swissboy) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 2:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hi folks, i`m new here...

have been following this thread for to long so i did the job... very nice results with some abyss-lights.

greez from switzerland, patrick

Upload
Upload
Upload

 
By Kraig Kaiser (kraig) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 2:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The Abyss lights look GOOOOD! They light up the water for quite a distance back.

After all this is done, will there be a group buy for the winner or for each brand? Looking to do this project....

 
By Todd Goin (tgoin) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 4:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Patrick,

Which Abyss' do you have in that picture, and
how many? (looks like 2)

Todd

 
By Ryan Bush (ryanbush11) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 7:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Wow!!! that looks amazing...

I'm asuming that was in clear ocean water??

 
By Tanner Russell (tanner) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 7:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That's pristine ocean water guys. Nothing like a lake.
 
By craig f (craig_f) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 8:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Might be a really clear lake. It's been a while since geography class, but an ocean in Switzerland?
 
By tony kohler (supraride) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 8:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Craig thats pretty funny. That does look awesome though.
 
By patrick walters (swissboy) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hi folks, in the pics i have two 1215`s pointing like 70 down on. we did a lot of testing, a lot... we got the best results pointing them down..crazy.. and yes, this is in croatia. are lakes are just as clear, just had no time to go on them :-(

the abyss-lights i have are bright like hell.. here a pic of the boat coming up front, you can even see the blue light from this angle!

greez patrick

greezUpload

 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
RESULTS!!!

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/702750.html?1244010787

 
By patrick walters (swissboy) on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 12:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
sorry, i have the 1515`s ..

greez

 

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